Road Race Camaro.. TT Block Choice? - Lateral-g Forums

gearhead1186 · #1 11-18-2008, 06:57 PM

Im building a 69 camaro with a max-g chassis frame. Its going to be a road course/street car. My goals is ~1000fwhp using and ls platform and twin turbos backed by a paddle shifted 4l80e.

Here is the pickle Im in. At that power level I have 3 choices of blocks..

1) GMPP Iron LSX --$2g ---- about 215lbs after machining
2) ERL prepped LS2 http://www.erlperformance.com/ -- $5200g ready for crank ----about 115 lbs after machining
3) LQ9/LQ4 6.0 liter truck block -- about $600 --- about 175lbs after machining

I would love to have an aluminum block since the tt setup will add even more weight but the price is a little extreme. Figuring a machined lsx block will be around 2600, the ERL prepped block is twice as much, another 2600.

Afer maching the LQ9/LQ4 will be about 1g and the ERL prepped block will cost me 4200 more.

Whats your opinion? I dont need to break any records, but I would like to be competitive in the road course. Iron or aluminum over the nose of the car?

The WidowMaker · #2 11-18-2008, 08:26 PM

having aluminum is HUGE, but so is 2600 in my pocket. if you have the money go for it. if not, try to move the engine as far back as possible and call it good.

its really hard to justify weight, but think about all the extra weight youre adding with the turbos and plumbing. whats another 100 lbs........

gearhead1186 · #3 11-18-2008, 08:36 PM

considering that the 6.0 iron block can hold 1000hp the lsx isnt exactly needed and adds more weight..

so its more like a 4g price difference between the lq9/lq4 and the erl prepped ls2.

Ive read that lingenfelter has gotten 1000hp out of stock ls7's.. only other cheap aluminum alternative

gearhead1186 · #4 11-18-2008, 09:03 PM

thats actually the ERL prepped block with new liners, 2 more bolt holes and a thicker deck.

If only it wasnt so expensive I would jump on it.

The lsx block being $2600 and able to hold 2000hp is awful tempting even though its about 80lbs heavier than the ERL ls2.

The iron 6.0 seems like a bargain at 700 for a new block but you are pretty much limited to 1000, 1100 hp.

**camcojb** · #5 11-18-2008, 09:47 PM

I don't think you need an aftermarket block at 1000 hp, Kurt (W2W) had no problem with my stock LS2 block at that level. Still doesn't as he's spec'd another for Troy at 800 rwhp with the stock LS2 block, no ERL prep, nada.

My two cents.................

Jody

deuce_454 · #6 11-19-2008, 06:42 AM

im having several thoughts on this... the first is that if 2600 is a huge deal... twin turbos propably isnt the right choice.... which leads me to the second argument, that twin turbos, while trick and cool, propably isnt the right choice anyway, if you want to go track, you need to be concerned about weight... very concerned, and adding pounds is like subtracting horsepower, not to mention tirewear and poor handling.....

my bet is that if you built a light weight camaro, aluminum/CF front end, power nothing!!! manual tranny (possibly a sequential race unit) lightweight driveline and a race spec LS7 (which will be closer to 750-850 FWHP depending on how much "race" you want...) you will be able to do faster laps than with a 1000 FWHP 4l80e monster... (a 4l80e weighs 254 lbs wet!!!) a TT setup propably adds well over 100 lbs...

and a kinsler IR setup on a built LS7 in an engine compartment that screams race is just as impressive! even more so IMHO!

anyway... thats just my 2 cents...

gearhead1186 · #7 11-19-2008, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by camcojb

I don't think you need an aftermarket block at 1000 hp, Kurt (W2W) had no problem with my stock LS2 block at that level. Still doesn't as he's spec'd another for Troy at 800 rwhp with the stock LS2 block, no ERL prep, nada.

My two cents.................

Jody

You've had no problems? No head gasket problems, pushing water, or strength of the aluminum at the power level. 1000fwhp seems like a lot for a stock sleeved aluminum block.

Quote:

Originally Posted by deuce_454

im having several thoughts on this... the first is that if 2600 is a huge deal... twin turbos propably isnt the right choice.... which leads me to the second argument, that twin turbos, while trick and cool, propably isnt the right choice anyway, if you want to go track, you need to be concerned about weight... very concerned, and adding pounds is like subtracting horsepower, not to mention tirewear and poor handling.....

my bet is that if you built a light weight camaro, aluminum/CF front end, power nothing!!! manual tranny (possibly a sequential race unit) lightweight driveline and a race spec LS7 (which will be closer to 750-850 FWHP depending on how much "race" you want...) you will be able to do faster laps than with a 1000 FWHP 4l80e monster... (a 4l80e weighs 254 lbs wet!!!) a TT setup propably adds well over 100 lbs...

and a kinsler IR setup on a built LS7 in an engine compartment that screams race is just as impressive! even more so IMHO!

anyway... thats just my 2 cents...

I wouldnt mind paying 2600 more if that is what is required but over at ls1tech, is seems like the erl prepped block is more for 1/4 miles cars running way more than 1000fwhp. It just seems that a stock ls2/ls7 or lq9 would suffice for the power levels I want.

Im not building a dedicated track car as I want to have a/c, decent sound system, power brakes, power steering. I just want to run it around the track and be competitive.

After the feedback I got over here and at ls1tech I have it narrowed it down to...

-->nasty NA ls7 matched with a t56. are you talking about the clutchless jericho and liberty trannys? (how do you figure 850hp NA ls7?) I would be more than happy with that but I havent seen any NA with that kinda power.

-->a turboed ls2 with a 4l80e paddle shifted.
-->a supercharged ls2 with a t56 (little better on weight)

Lets hear opinions between these.

Thanks again for all your feedback. Appreciate it.

tyoneal · #8 11-22-2008, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gearhead1186

Im building a 69 camaro with a max-g chassis frame. Its going to be a road course/street car. My goals is ~1000fwhp using and ls platform and twin turbos backed by a paddle shifted 4l80e.

Here is the pickle Im in. At that power level I have 3 choices of blocks..

1) GMPP Iron LSX --$2g ---- about 215lbs after machining
2) ERL prepped LS2 http://www.erlperformance.com/ -- $5200g ready for crank ----about 115 lbs after machining
3) LQ9/LQ4 6.0 liter truck block -- about $600 --- about 175lbs after machining

I would love to have an aluminum block since the tt setup will add even more weight but the price is a little extreme. Figuring a machined lsx block will be around 2600, the ERL prepped block is twice as much, another 2600.

Afer maching the LQ9/LQ4 will be about 1g and the ERL prepped block will cost me 4200 more.

Whats your opinion? I dont need to break any records, but I would like to be competitive in the road course. Iron or aluminum over the nose of the car?

====================================
The TT's are going to cost some bucks. Look at the engines Schwartz manufacturing makes. They are biult right, but your also looking at $22K worth of greenbacks. They have the power and are priced fairly.

1) The money that it will take to build the beast you want right, I think might be considerably higher than what your budgeting. (This does not include the Magicians who can build these on their own, and make them work right.)

2) If you really want a good road racing car, spend 80% of your money on the suspension and 20% on the engine. Recently I have found that a well sorted out car with 250 hp to the ground, can play hell with someone with 500 hp to the ground, and that doesn't even come near the 1000hp you are speaking of. With that hp, Drag Racing or Bonneville would be the right place for those types of engines.

What do the rest think, does this sound correct?

Ty

I think you might have one other issue to deal with.

gearhead1186 · #9 11-22-2008, 10:50 PM

yes, thanks. If you read the above posts, I have since adjusted my goals and plans for the car.

I am leaning towards a n/a ls7 with 600rwhp with some juice for the heck of it.

or

a supercharged ls7 pushing no more than 10lbs of boost.

dont need more than 700rwhp.

what my question is now... being that the eaton 2300 isnt available to the public, im assuming the procharger is my only option. just want to make sure it will be reliable enough if i go the f/i route.

gearhead1186 · #10 11-23-2008, 12:41 AM

Yes, thank you. I remember reading that. I stand corrected.

Now that we have that out of the way, which blower is better suited for road racing.. the harrop 2300 or say a d1 or f1 procharger?

In regards to the ls7/ls3.. the wet sump on the ls3 can be converted to the ls7's dry sump correct? All thats needed is a longer crank, ls7 pump, timing cover etc? If thats the case I would gladly trade a couple cubes for a block with more meat.

Thanks again.