Soft springs/big bars set up question...

[hp2]

Originally Posted by DavidBoren

Most of what I find being sold online, or discussed in forums is drag-your-frame, put-your-dime-on-dubs, bag-it/sag-it bull$#!+ and that is not what I am after. I would like either a kit, or proven combination of parts, geared towards optimizing steering geometry using the factory mounting points.

You need to start looking for/at lower level oval track providers. While you are turning both right and left and may not think it is applicable, there actually are a lot of stock stub oval track cars utilizing soft spring/big bar set ups. Just use their advice as a symetrical set up instead of a left/right bias.

[BMR Sales]

Originally Posted by samckitt

LOL. I want to see what you did to front suspension. I currently have the blazer spindles with Vette brakes & adjustable upper A arms I got from SC&C. But using stock lowers A arms. I have some high rate S10 springs, 1LE sway bar & billstein shocks. Thinking of changing lowers & using some tall Howe ball joints.

For rears I have BMR arms, poly/poly, adjustable uppers that I have had for years. Want to go with the Roto joints, looks like I cant just change the joints out, gotta get new arms.

Scot, give me a Call, I might have an Option for you

T.C.

[DavidBoren]

Awesome. Thank you for the informative replies, gentlemen. I especially appreciate the specifics of what needs to be changed as far as ball joint position. I still have a lot to learn, because there is A LOT to learn pertaining to front suspension design and steering geometry.

I will certainly check out those A-arms from ridetech, thanks for the link, Bret.

Looking at the tru turn system for the G-body, it looks like what I am looking for. Will it work with the S10 spindles you offer? Or would it be better to use factory spindles and get all my drop from adjusting coilovers?

[Ron Sutton]

Originally Posted by DavidBoren

When dealing with factory A-arms, is the geometry correct for using the more modern approach of high travel/low roll?

Or do you need longer A-arms for that concept to work?

Although a question of general theory, I am asking in regards to my S10. If I use stock A-arms, which originally had stiff springs and a little sway bar, and I install soft springs and a big anti-roll bar, would the additional travel allowed by the softer springs mess with the geometry of this suspension?

Hi David,

This is the second post of your I'm tagging into today. When someone decides to go with a modern high travel /low roll angle front suspension strategy ... with a factory stock suspension ... there are a few things to work out.

The first is pretty basic. You need to find out how far your suspension will compress (from ride height) until it stops. Something will stop it. Either a shock will bottom out, a control arm will hit the frame, a ball joint will angle until it binds, etc. When you find out how far it will travel in dive ... say 2.5" from ride height .. and then something stops it ... you need to make a decision is that enough travel ... or do I want more ... and am I willing to correct the issue to achieve it.

In many production cars ... especially when we lower them ... the two common culprits that limit travel are:
1. The LCA hitting the snubber or frame.
2. The shock bottoming out.

#1 solution options:
a. Remove or trim the snubber if that is what hits first.
b. Trim the metal off that hangs down from the frame that the LCAs are hitting. The metal I'm referring to has no structural value & is simply left over in the punching & forming process during frame manufacturing.
c. Switch to tubular LCAs.

#2 solution options:
a. Buy or make ... and install a taller upper shock mount that allows you to run a longer shock with more travel.
b. Modify your LCA (with plenty of strength in the design & materials) to extend the bottom mounting point of your shock ... that allows you to run a longer shock with more travel.
c. Switch to a LCA with lower bottom shock mounts designed in ... that allow you to run a longer shock with more travel.

So ... after you have enough travel ... whatever that is ... then we can cover the "geometry part" of your question.

The length of the UCAs & LCAs are not a limiting factor to high travel or optimum performance with high travel. Can we achieve better dynamic geometry with longer control arms? Absolutely. Are they required? Absolutely not.

The key parts of your front suspension geometry that will matter when you go to a modern high travel/low roll angle front suspension strategy ... are, in order:
1. Dynamic roll center location (dynamic meaning when the car/truck is in full dive & roll).
2. Camber gain ... don't want too much.
3. Jacking force of the UCAs ... which comes from excessive UCA angle.
4. Bump steer ... don't want too much.
5. Caster gain ... just need to take the amount into account.
* Frankly ... these 5 things matter to optimum handling performance of everyone's front suspension ... regardless of their strategy.

So, to summarize ... the length of the controls is less of an issue. Achieving the desired travel without suspension bind ... and hitting the target with the 5 suspension geometry items listed ... are the key things to focus on initially. Of course, you'll need to work out what spring rates & bar rates front & rear .. along with optimum shock valving. But my tip is to start with what we've covered here.

If you ask me any questions in your thread ... would you please PM me so I know to visit your thread? Thanks !