money owed

[tellyv]

When we started he was keeping up, then he left for florida all winter and the checks came but not as often, then you know how it goes I need my car for spring so we dumped all the other projects and 4 of us worked on it for about 2 months straight and him being a big talker we let the car out and here we are. At least I got a big chunk of it today and I sure did learn a lesson.

[Porterbuilt]

I have found it best to take labor deposits. Depending on the scope of the build the deposits may be large or small sums. I make all my customers pay for parts before I order them, and I take anywhere from $2,500 to $10,000 deposits on labor. Once the labor deposit has been used, we get together to go over the progress and then get another deposit. I started doing this after I ended up in your situation once. Never had to wait for another dollar.

Glad to hear you got your money.

[byndbad914]

Originally Posted by tellyv

When we started he was keeping up, then he left for florida all winter and the checks came but not as often, then you know how it goes I need my car for spring so we dumped all the other projects and 4 of us worked on it for about 2 months straight and him being a big talker we let the car out and here we are. At least I got a big chunk of it today and I sure did learn a lesson.

I hear you and BTDT too. Similar story, had this dude talked big about all the money he makes as a partner in a small private equity company (and having an MBA and knowing PE guys - they make BANK when they are on) and he did make money hand over fist apparently and I had considered/talked about working for him.

Then he told my friend he would buy his old late model/SW Tour car to go road racing in NASA. Friend sold it for $6500 to him and he wanted a one year contract to pay it off. Claims he turned close to a million on the year before and wants a contract to pay $6500. He probably had it in his pocket frankly, but he screwed my friend around for the whole year and then some and finally paid him for the car only after mutual friends pressured him to not be an ahole Needless to say I quit talking about working for him - not cuz I couldn't have done well but screw working for someone with ethics like that.

The people with the biggest mouths and bank accounts also seem to be the biggest aholes. And they don't start that way, but man, money has really changed a few of my friends in the past. Weird deal, but I NEVER trust anyone flaunting cash.

[bill amsley]

been there done that! tell your cust you would like to do a little touching up before he pays up , make him feel like your doing him a favor. then you will have the car back ,only to be released after full payment, this time. trust me it works the guy is thinking "i didnt even pay for it and hes going to give me more" a greedy scum bag falls for that every time.

[ironworks]

To some guys it is not about the money it is about the fact that they can boss you around with their money. The guy who bought the 6500 car on terms just wanted to have it over someone. He probabley was over the car before he made the 2nd payment. I have had the customers that just want to big the big shot in my shop and when someone comes in with the bigger and badder project, things go south on their build. But there is nothing more amazing then a great set of customers that work into life long friends and respect you for the work you do and are excited about the car. In my seven years of owning my shop, I have gained some customers that I truly wish had trillions to burn, and I'm sure they also. But I have had guys that I wish would just run out of money and take them and there dumb car home.

I think the key is open communication and do not sugar coat anything. These cars are all expensive. The build is not very motivating at certain points in the project and can be fustrating for the customer, but the devil is in the details. I have learned if the customer does not really care about seeing the build progress, either in pictures or in person. They probably are not to passionate about the build, they just what a car. At that point they should have just bought a car already built. Then I have other customers that you cannot send enough pics to, and that want to come by and see the details and how it is working. They are excited and they make my job fun. I have had customer that was local that just came by ALOT, just to check to see that we were working. That is lack of trust and he should go somewhere where he trusts someone but they get offended when you send them down the road finally.

OK rant over.... For now

Rodger

[comp-spec]

Originally Posted by ironworks

To some guys it is not about the money it is about the fact that they can boss you around with their money. The guy who bought the 6500 car on terms just wanted to have it over someone. He probabley was over the car before he made the 2nd payment. I have had the customers that just want to big the big shot in my shop and when someone comes in with the bigger and badder project, things go south on their build. But there is nothing more amazing then a great set of customers that work into life long friends and respect you for the work you do and are excited about the car. In my seven years of owning my shop, I have gained some customers that I truly wish had trillions to burn, and I'm sure they also. But I have had guys that I wish would just run out of money and take them and there dumb car home.

I think the key is open communication and do not sugar coat anything. These cars are all expensive. The build is not very motivating at certain points in the project and can be fustrating for the customer, but the devil is in the details. I have learned if the customer does not really care about seeing the build progress, either in pictures or in person. They probably are not to passionate about the build, they just what a car. At that point they should have just bought a car already built. Then I have other customers that you cannot send enough pics to, and that want to come by and see the details and how it is working. They are excited and they make my job fun. I have had customer that was local that just came by ALOT, just to check to see that we were working. That is lack of trust and he should go somewhere where he trusts someone but they get offended when you send them down the road finally.

OK rant over.... For now

Rodger

Right on the money Rodger


I ask any new customer to come by the shop check us out see the cars in different stages and see if they feel comfortable with us and our work. If you're not sure after that I don't want you to drop the car off because like Roger said these cars are all expensive. The build is not very motivating at certain points in the project and can be frustrating for the customer, and then there's times they will be extremely happy ( HOPE ALL THE TIME)
Then we talk payments.
We never get to deep in dept with customers. We'll stay up on labor and parts with the big jobs. They get expensive fast
then there's always the COLLECTOR

[ironworks]

I'm a quick learner and when you stand to close to fire you get burned. I have a few scares. But scares build character.

Another thing is every project built in any shop goes over budget. Everyone has grand ideas and short strokes on what it will take and all it takes is just little bit more of this and little bit more of that. If you say that enough times pretty soon you have spent 10 grand.

It amazes me that well over 50% of building hot rods professionally has nothing to do with anything that is done in the shop. If you want to make money building hot rods, go get a real job. If you cannot see your self doing anything else, you must have the passion, but passion does not help you run a business, WELL.

[byndbad914]

Originally Posted by ironworks

...It amazes me that well over 50% of building hot rods professionally has nothing to do with anything that is done in the shop. If you want to make money building hot rods, go get a real job. If you cannot see your self doing anything else, you must have the passion, but passion does not help you run a business, WELL.

Werd - you hit it right on the head. First thing any good business school will teach you is the reason why most businesses fail is because the person starts it thinking it is 100% technical and they are really good at what they do.

Reality is it is about 10-15% technical because 85-90% of the time you are so busy with all the other BS that you spend 10-15% of your time overseeing people you have hired to do the technical work to keep them on track. So you hope to hire people that are 100% technical so that 10-15% you spend in guidance doesn't kill you Hence, as I am sure you have found Roger, you have a bunch of hopefully good employees you HAVE to (not want to or hope to but HAVE to) be able to give a brief descript of what you want and then turn and walk away and not look back until they are done and need the next assignment. That is sooooooooo soooooooo sooooooo (I can do that fifty more times) hard to find. BTDT and then the good ones require too much hourly to make it worth while (and rightly so if they are good at what they do).

It's that whole I can charge $75/hr shop rate to get the job to begin with v. the $120 I really want to charge, attempt to convince the best employees $25/hr ($50K/yr which ain't sh!t to raise a family on in CA) is "killer" pay, have $30-$33/hr in him after taxes (don't even think about having bennies), have material costs for the build that average in, overhead costs and depreciation on equip to factor in, etc etc and pretty soon you are down to where he makes $25/hr and you make $10 So it gets a whole lot easier to just go get a job again and be really good at what you do technically for $25/hr while the poor bastardo cutting the check is going broke.

So you spend a few years eating Ramen noodles and working to get a reputation to get more biz to get more employee headaches to get more biz to get more employees until you have 7 employees making you $10/hr and it starts to make sense.

Hence why at the age of 27 I sold my hot rod, went back to school, got my BSME and I got a "real" job as you put. And I still dream about having my own biz now and again (bet you didn't know you were living the dream hahahaha when payroll shows up ev'ry Friday and nobody has shown up that week to pay a chunk of their labor bill) but then when I get up out of my chair and go home after 9 hours, have every other Friday off, and make more in 40 than I would in 60, I just don't miss it (most days).

But man, when you are doing what you love, 60 seems like 30 when 40 seems like 80 in the corporate world Everything has it's evils, it's just which evils you can stomach easier.

Geez, I really get going sometimes. You clearly are carving out a niche, and you guys do some really nice work for sure so I wish you all the best it realizing the "dream", but you are very right in saying it isn't for everyone. And most everyone wants their own biz including my history, and you can never understand the trials and tribs 'til you've been there. Careful what they wish for, right!

[RECOVERY ROOM]

Originally Posted by ironworks

I'm a quick learner and when you stand to close to fire you get burned. I have a few scares. But scares build character.

Another thing is every project built in any shop goes over budget. Everyone has grand ideas and short strokes on what it will take and all it takes is just little bit more of this and little bit more of that. If you say that enough times pretty soon you have spent 10 grand.

It amazes me that well over 50% of building hot rods professionally has nothing to do with anything that is done in the shop. If you want to make money building hot rods, go get a real job. If you cannot see your self doing anything else, you must have the passion, but passion does not help you run a business, WELL.

Girls dig scares..(heard it on a movie)And yes you do have to love working on hot rods,because if you don't its a job.The one's that are good, are the one's that care and are willing to sacrafice in the beginning.Nights,weekends,are all part of being self employed.Just ask the wifes and families.