A Subframe Less Traveled

[Silver69Camaro]

This is just my opinion, but I think it's silly to build a car around a wheel. You're giving up so much by choosing that rim...isn't there an alternative? You may regret your decision down the road...after all the money and time have been spent.

[deuce_454]

the ATS spindle works in a 17 inch wheel. you might have to run a wheelspacer and more backspacing on the wheel to to move the mounting flange outwards and clear the brakes....

if i were you id install a whole ATS Chicayne subframe and just get the spindles with the long 1/2-20 thread option and run a quality mashined spacer (frank can set you up with one from forgeline)

[tyoneal]

Originally Posted by Silver69Camaro

This is just my opinion, but I think it's silly to build a car around a wheel. You're giving up so much by choosing that rim...isn't there an alternative? You may regret your decision down the road...after all the money and time have been spent.

==============================

When I bought the car it already had:

Global West UCA and LCA (Supposedly corrects about half the Bumpster as well as Caster/Camber)
Hotchkis 1 1/8 Front Sway Bar
Stock Spindles

Needed when purchased

Needed a Steering Box or Rack and Pinion
Needed to buy Some Big Brakes When the car was Purchased
Probably could use the Baer Bumpsteer Kit anyway

--------------------------------------------------------
To Upgrade the Stock Front Subframe

Need to buy the Radial Mount Caliper Brakes
Global west lower control arms (To work with the Coil Over Shocks, would need anyway for Coil Over upgrade)
Shocks (Which I would have to buy anyway either way I went)
Steering Box OR Rack and Pinion (Which I needed when I bought the Car)
Baer Bumpsteer Kit

The actual Cost for using the original Subframe is not as bad as it would be if none of the upgrades of needs weren't already there when the car was purchased.

With this additional information change any of your thoughts?

Even if I went to a aftermarket Subframe, I would still have to buy many of these parts.

I think the gains of a new subframe would be weight (30-40 pounds)
Would not have to buy new LCA for the Coil Over Shocks

Other than that they are about even aren't they?

Plus I don't have to spend $4-$7,000 for a new front Subframe plus all the Labor involved changing it. In addition, the upgraded parts are a higher quality than what comes on the Custom Subframes.

I'm interested in your thoughts.

Thanks,

Ty

[deuce_454]

the vintage wheel works wheels will work with the ats spindles if you run a spacer to get the rear face of the wheel away from the brake calipers... that would mean ordering the front wheels with more backspacing, and the getting ATS spindles with longer studs....

to determine the required thickness of the spacer, buy the spindles (with long studs) and your rear wheels first! this will give you the opportunity to measure and test what thickness spacer is required to clear the brakes... and then order the spacers and front wheels accordingly...

this will not adversely affect ANY steering geometry! and is the cheapest and best way to get your car handling.... the lower price of the C5 based brakes almost pays for the ats spindles... and you can retain all of your front suspension as is... all you need then is to install a proper steering box and you are good to go

[tyoneal]

Originally Posted by deuce_454

the vintage wheel works wheels will work with the ats spindles if you run a spacer to get the rear face of the wheel away from the brake calipers... that would mean ordering the front wheels with more backspacing, and the getting ATS spindles with longer studs....

to determine the required thickness of the spacer, buy the spindles (with long studs) and your rear wheels first! this will give you the opportunity to measure and test what thickness spacer is required to clear the brakes... and then order the spacers and front wheels accordingly...

this will not adversely affect ANY steering geometry! and is the cheapest and best way to get your car handling.... the lower price of the C5 based brakes almost pays for the ats spindles... and you can retain all of your front suspension as is... all you need then is to install a proper steering box and you are good to go

=================================
Thanks a lot for the information. That does sound like a decent way of solving the issue.

Regards,

Ty O'Neal

[Marcus SC&C]

We can help you with both the geometry and fittment issues. Either the AFX tall spindles or the stock spindles with the SC&C X-tall upper ball joints (which may be the ones you have?) and our bumpsteer correction tall tie rod ends will take care of the major suspension and steering geometry issues. A arms don`t alter bumpsteer no matter what anyone says. You can get some small improvement in bumpsteer by adding + caster but it`s not even close to half if you actually measure it with a bumpsteer gauge. The AFX spindles will will naturally provide a larger improvement in both suspension and steering geometry than we can get out of the stock spindles and offer much bigger wheel bearings etc. as well. Good comment above about brake caliper clearance. If you need an inch of clearance,add 1" of backspacing and a 1" bolt on adapter (the type with it`s own studs). For serious use it should be hub centric on both sides not universal fit. You can get them custom made for reasonable prices at wheeladapter.com Then you`ll have the wheels you want and lots of caliper clearance.
The Penske shocks and ATS brackets are a great choice.
IMO skip the R&P. Any percieved extra precision in the rack is lost in all the extra u joints in the steering shaft and any weight saved by the lighter rack is offset by the steel brackets etc. required to mount it. A Lee 670 box is 6.5lbs lighter than the stock 800 box and will give you more feel and precision than you`ll get out of most modern performance cars. Certainly better than our C5.
It`s nice to cover stuff on here because other folks can benefit from it but it`s also a little like talking with Post-it notes. Feel free to give us a call for more information. Mark SC&C