Ok Builders, I need some input... (pics)

[TreySmith]

This happens ALOT with early mustangs. I would never EVER buy a restored mustang coupe..

[svp]

Originally Posted by TreySmith

This happens ALOT with early mustangs. I would never EVER buy a restored mustang coupe..

This was a learning experience for everyone in that aspect...think about how many cars that even cross Barrett Jackson that sell for a lot of money are just thrown together cover up jobs. There is a guy here south of Birmingham that bought a '68 Shelby "recreation" at BJ for $60Kish....later when he got to looking at it he noticed "shapes" in the floor pan...pulled the carpet and saw matching "shapes" on the top as well...turns out the floors had a LOT of small riveted patches put in and then had bedliner sprayed on the top and bottom of the floors to cover it up.

At this point I'd rather just buy a pile of junk to start with...at least you know what you have and anything good is a bonus.

The '69 Fastback we have here was sold as a 351 powered GT and the inspector noted that...the inspector even wrote down that the suspension had been "rebuilt" when in fact it was all original except for the cut and clamped front springs(see pic)....the list is HUGE on things that were obvious on this car that were problems and it was a 302 under the hood and the gas cap was from a '68...that's where he got the GT part. Unfortunately the customer was not well informed on Mustangs and when the finance company told him that they required an "inspection" and that he had to pay $200 for it he figured it was going to actually get "inspected"....I could have done a better inspection driving by at 55mph! When he confronted the finance compnay their response was "Well, we just require them to verify the car is actually there"....really sad.

[TreySmith]

I didn't read any of it but, $75 for 100 hours over a year, or $150 for 100 hours over... well.. 100 hours. I can see why there is a price difference.

It works this way with EVERYTHING. If you want it NOW, expect to pay MORE.

[Blackdog714]

Honestly, if his changing things at the last minute is adding time and expense that he cannot see later on, I'd start having him sign and date Change Order notes that give a realistic time addition and cost the change will add. That way when it comes time to pay up, if he balks, you have a stack of docs to back up EVERYTHING you've done.

If it goes to court (no one wants to think about that, but it is reality) you don't want to be on the short end of the stick.

In a court of law, he who documents the most, wins...

[sacarguy]

Well for one there comes a point where you realy should tell your customer .. JUST BUY SOMETHING MORE SOLID...

his time will be saved your time will be saved to many shops want to just run that labor bill up fixing whatever they have to when the customer would be better served by being told the simple truth.

Also far to many shops take in multiple cars when they simply can not work on them..

i see it every day a shop has two guys < a chasis shop for example > and they got three cars there already needing work.

a fourth guy shows up and they say sure I can do it just to get the job in there.. then so they can collect money from each person they do a little on one car then a little on the other then a little on the other etc etc.

a simple rule can stop all this..

DON"T take in work that 1 the customer cant pay for you to work continualy on unless the customer specificly understands the project will take extreme amounts of time.

and 2 dont take in another car if you got a car a customer who will pay you to finish by working non stop on it and wants to.

I am about to finish a full frame off resto mod including paint etc on a car and i have a total of 5 weeks invested so far in the car and i only have me and two employess one of wich is just a shop errand runner.

I mean soda blasted to bare metal, every nut and bolt replaced, a new engine built, full vete brakes, powder coated suspension, and rear end, and sub frame, as well as a new transmission, and full reproduction interior, custom stereo, covans dash, etc etc there is nothing left of the old car except the floor and the rear half.. new trunk floor but other wise non rusted car.

The total turn around by time im done painting the car will have been 6 or 7 weeks and ill make as much or most likely more in that time as i would have trying to take multiple cars a little at a time and without the headache of complaining customers over time taken, or having to track multiple builds etc etc.
I understand this is not the same situation with all the custom work you have done you simply need to tell people either you are going to have to give me xx per week so i can work on your car solid or you will have to just wait and have it done as it can be done.

as hard as it may be for some of the smaller shops to do you also some times you just have to say no i cant do it right now.

[96z28ss]

Originally Posted by sacarguy

Well for one there comes a point where you realy should tell your customer .. JUST BUY SOMETHING MORE SOLID...

his time will be saved your time will be saved to many shops want to just run that labor bill up fixing whatever they have to when the customer would be better served by being told the simple truth.

Also far to many shops take in multiple cars when they simply can not work on them..

i see it every day a shop has two guys < a chasis shop for example > and they got three cars there already needing work.

a fourth guy shows up and they say sure I can do it just to get the job in there.. then so they can collect money from each person they do a little on one car then a little on the other then a little on the other etc etc.

a simple rule can stop all this..

DON"T take in work that 1 the customer cant pay for you to work continualy on unless the customer specificly understands the project will take extreme amounts of time.

and 2 dont take in another car if you got a car a customer who will pay you to finish by working non stop on it and wants to.

I am about to finish a full frame off resto mod including paint etc on a car and i have a total of 5 weeks invested so far in the car and i only have me and two employess one of wich is just a shop errand runner.

I mean soda blasted to bare metal, every nut and bolt replaced, a new engine built, full vete brakes, powder coated suspension, and rear end, and sub frame, as well as a new transmission, and full reproduction interior, custom stereo, covans dash, etc etc there is nothing left of the old car except the floor and the rear half.. new trunk floor but other wise non rusted car.

The total turn around by time im done painting the car will have been 6 or 7 weeks and ill make as much or most likely more in that time as i would have trying to take multiple cars a little at a time and without the headache of complaining customers over time taken, or having to track multiple builds etc etc.
I understand this is not the same situation with all the custom work you have done you simply need to tell people either you are going to have to give me xx per week so i can work on your car solid or you will have to just wait and have it done as it can be done.

as hard as it may be for some of the smaller shops to do you also some times you just have to say no i cant do it right now.

Okay so you have 2 guys working on the car or just one guy?

[sacarguy]

Originally Posted by 96z28ss

Okay so you have 2 guys working on the car or just one guy?

one guy whos sole job is to work on that car and my other guy is on it whenever we don't have anything for him to do on the other lift.

I under stand its rare to find a customer who will pay for non stop work wich is why i dedicate one lift to that and another to off on jobs.

I have two employes.

i assign one guy to work non stop on large jobs on one side of the shop and the other helps him and when a short term quick job comes in he drops off to do that job.

i work out back one everything long and short depending on whats needed at the time plus at the counter/showroom

Originally Posted by SVPJason

How much of this work are you doing? how much is subed out? i.e. engine, trans, paint, interior, etc... just wondering..

The only work not done here at my shop was the actual soda blasting and powder coating we removed the chassis suspension stuff and disasemled it droped it off to be blasted then took it to be coated.

the engine was removed and we ordered the parts had a block machined then assembled the entire engine here at my shop
the trany was a complete built unit from my trans supplier

Everything else was done here in house.. We dont build our own controll arms or anything like that its a built from buyable parts car.

but thats what 99 percent of the cars you build are

then there is the 1 percent that you have to just custom build everything .. and those should realize at the out set thats a LOOOONG term project.

[svp]

Originally Posted by sacarguy

Also far to many shops take in multiple cars when they simply can not work on them..

i see it every day a shop has two guys < a chasis shop for example > and they got three cars there already needing work.

a fourth guy shows up and they say sure I can do it just to get the job in there.. then so they can collect money from each person they do a little on one car then a little on the other then a little on the other etc etc.

I've seen this before but it doesn't apply to everyone...We have seperate accounts for seperate customers and money is NEVER used from one customer to work on anothers car...that is a personal pet peeve of mine.

Sometimes one can take on a project they really don't have time for because they are too nice and trying to accomodate everyone. I've been guilty of that and I've stopped trying to accomodate everyone anymore because it just comes back to haunt you. I told this customer that I had other cars ahead of him and he understood that....and his car has jumped ahead of others due to the push on time which is not fair to the other customers and I probably should not have allowed myself to be pushed that way...but again, trying to be nice and accomodating.

Anyone who has ever run a shop knows that you have to work on more than one job primarily because a customer who wants to pay you to work constantly on the car are not around every corner....most customers cannot afford to pay you 40 plus hours each week and most customers don't want to have that expense. We do some quick install work here and there as well as full restorations/builds.....the restoration/big projects are worked on around quick in and out installations and I tell everyone that going in so they understand and do not/should not expect constant non stop work on their car. If that is what they desire then that would be the time to speak up.

a simple rule can stop all this..

DON"T take in work that 1 the customer cant pay for you to work continualy on unless the customer specificly understands the project will take extreme amounts of time.

Addressed above.

and 2 dont take in another car if you got a car a customer who will pay you to finish by working non stop on it and wants to.

That customer is a rare bird these days....very few that come in with the "cost is not a concern" attitude so you work with them....and in doing so there is going to be other work in and around theirs.

I am about to finish a full frame off resto mod including paint etc on a car and i have a total of 5 weeks invested so far in the car and i only have me and two employess one of wich is just a shop errand runner.

I mean soda blasted to bare metal, every nut and bolt replaced, a new engine built, full vete brakes, powder coated suspension, and rear end, and sub frame, as well as a new transmission, and full reproduction interior, custom stereo, covans dash, etc etc there is nothing left of the old car except the floor and the rear half.. new trunk floor but other wise non rusted car.

The total turn around by time im done painting the car will have been 6 or 7 weeks and ill make as much or most likely more in that time as i would have trying to take multiple cars a little at a time and without the headache of complaining customers over time taken, or having to track multiple builds etc etc.

That's great....unfortunately I don't currently have customers that are willing to spend what it takes to do that. I'd be more than happy to schedule someone to come in for us to do just that. But the reality is that most people while they want to build a car want to save money where they can.

I understand this is not the same situation with all the custom work you have done you simply need to tell people either you are going to have to give me xx per week so i can work on your car solid or you will have to just wait and have it done as it can be done.

as hard as it may be for some of the smaller shops to do you also some times you just have to say no i cant do it right now.

I agree and I have done that....we have a waiting list right now because of that. I am currently not filling slots when a car leaves because I want to thin out the work load a bit.

As I said, I tend to be too nice at times and accomodate everyone but I have been changing that. We have a waiting list but even with that I am not filling the slots in the shop as we get them done because I want more room and less ongoing jobs. Help is another story....we have tried multiple times to bring in help but good help is impossible to find....you either get a kid that quits when he finds out there is real work involved or you get someone who tries to steal from you....it just wasn't worth the drama. So as a result we stay covered up...

There is always a learning curve and you always tweak things to help things run better....you are never done learning. My downfall is trying to make everyone happy.

[SVPJason]

Originally Posted by sacarguy

Well for one there comes a point where you realy should tell your customer .. JUST BUY SOMETHING MORE SOLID...

his time will be saved your time will be saved to many shops want to just run that labor bill up fixing whatever they have to when the customer would be better served by being told the simple truth.

Also far to many shops take in multiple cars when they simply can not work on them..

i see it every day a shop has two guys < a chasis shop for example > and they got three cars there already needing work.

a fourth guy shows up and they say sure I can do it just to get the job in there.. then so they can collect money from each person they do a little on one car then a little on the other then a little on the other etc etc.

a simple rule can stop all this..

DON"T take in work that 1 the customer cant pay for you to work continualy on unless the customer specificly understands the project will take extreme amounts of time.

and 2 dont take in another car if you got a car a customer who will pay you to finish by working non stop on it and wants to.

I am about to finish a full frame off resto mod including paint etc on a car and i have a total of 5 weeks invested so far in the car and i only have me and two employess one of wich is just a shop errand runner.

I mean soda blasted to bare metal, every nut and bolt replaced, a new engine built, full vete brakes, powder coated suspension, and rear end, and sub frame, as well as a new transmission, and full reproduction interior, custom stereo, covans dash, etc etc there is nothing left of the old car except the floor and the rear half.. new trunk floor but other wise non rusted car.

The total turn around by time im done painting the car will have been 6 or 7 weeks and ill make as much or most likely more in that time as i would have trying to take multiple cars a little at a time and without the headache of complaining customers over time taken, or having to track multiple builds etc etc.
I understand this is not the same situation with all the custom work you have done you simply need to tell people either you are going to have to give me xx per week so i can work on your car solid or you will have to just wait and have it done as it can be done.

as hard as it may be for some of the smaller shops to do you also some times you just have to say no i cant do it right now.

How much of this work are you doing? how much is subed out? i.e. engine, trans, paint, interior, etc... just wondering..