3 link suspension

[Mean 69]

Hi guys,

***Rad: I don't think you need to worry about the debate between four link setups, and three link setups on this forum, it is pretty simple to show the benefits of a three link over a four link. Technically, what it sounds like you have is a torque arm, and though there are three physical links on the system, it behaves quite a bit differently than a "three link" (the main thing being that the center link on a torque arm is rigidly mounted to the axle assembly, whereas a three link is joined via a bushing or link, and is allowed to rotate in bump/droop).***

Attached is a Solid-model of the Lateral Dynamics Three Link setup, all of the work was engineered in Solidworks software, including strain/defelection analysis on critical points. We use Bill Mitchell's WinGeo to model the actual suspension kinematics for those of you familiar with the software packages available. This design is an "improved" version of what has been in our test mule for nearly a year now. Improved, meaning the brackets and other aspects are a bit better thought out than the prototype, but the suspension geometry is the same, and we are pretty proud of it.

The setup has yet to be installed on a customer car, though two cars are in the process of installation at this time (one first gen on the east coast, one second gen in our shop in California). Both cars are on rotisseries, and will serve as the basis for generating an extensive installation instruction and setup guide. The setup is commercially available right now, though due to the SEMA show, deliveries will be a couple weeks out. We had some issues finding reliable suppliers early on and that cost us a good amount of time, but we now have found reliable, capable folks for the elements we don't have the tooling to build, thanks to some key contacts from friends in the industry. All of the crossmembers, brackets, and most importantly, the rear end assembly (9" Ford based assembly) are fixture welded by us, I am very confident that you will be extremely pleased with the quality. You won't have to fuss with welding brackets to the axle tubes and needing to straighten things afterwards, we take care of that for you. Installation is not terribly complex, but does involve some careful cutting, and of course, welding of the crossmember brackets. It is no more complex than installing a set of mini-tubs, or through floor subframe connectors.

The kit is a very complete setup, less components that are very customer preference specific. Namely, the center section/differential/gear setup, axles, and brakes are not included. The reason is that there are so many options, it would be very difficult for us to stock all of this at this time, though we can recommend and supply these components as an option to the kit. Brakes are based upon the highly popular Corvette "C5" configuration, so any commercially available C5 kit will work, from the very good, budget friendly GM parts, to aftermarket endurance race setups, and anything in between. The base kit comes with a set of Bilstein mono-tube coil over shock absorbers, custom valved for our application so you don't need to fuss with setting. A matched set of Hypercoil or Eibach springs is also included. Penske Racing Shocks are available as an upgrade, and though relatively expensive, these shocks are generally regarded as the best practical racing shock, and are highly supported: you can't go to a track these days and NOT find someone that can rebuild/service Penske's. The model shown has heim/rod ends in all pivot locations, however, high durometer rubber bushings are included on the base kit to help keep road noise down. Rod ends in all locations are also available. Because we control all aspects of the design, custom width rear ends, full floating axle-hub setups, and other configuration are all available.

Our website is under construction, we will have a temporary one up in a few days with more details and pictures of the setup. We will be at SEMA with a booth (#52425) and a display setup, so if you attend the show, please stop by and say hello. I'll drop some pic's of the hardware here in the very near future.

Mark

[TravisB]

Mark that is a nice set-up! Are you going to be doing anything with A-bodys...just wondering!

Looks great though

[Mean 69]

Are you going to be doing anything with A-bodys

Thanks Travis, and yes, we will be doing many more like products for various cars in the near future. Current plans are to do a front subframe for second gen F bodies (projected release February '06), a first gen subframe, and then we will be looking at different platforms, including Mustangs, other GM cars, and Mopar as well. If you have some ideas or needs, we'd love to hear about them.

Here are a couple of pic's of the first gen crossmembers. We should have some pic's of the rear end housing in a day or two, as well as the Watt's bracket. Moving steadily along. Matt won't let either Katz or myself weld any production stuff, it's an ongoing internal joke for us. Here's an example why.

Mark

[radrambler]

Originally Posted by Mean 69

Thanks Travis, and yes, we will be doing many more like products for various cars in the near future. Current plans are to do a front subframe for second gen F bodies (projected release February '06), a first gen subframe, and then we will be looking at different platforms, including Mustangs, other GM cars, and Mopar as well. If you have some ideas or needs, we'd love to hear about them.

Here are a couple of pic's of the first gen crossmembers. We should have some pic's of the rear end housing in a day or two, as well as the Watt's bracket. Moving steadily along. Matt won't let either Katz or myself weld any production stuff, it's an ongoing internal joke for us. Here's an example why.

Mark

LOOKS LIKE NICE PRODUCTS......WISH YOU GREAT SUCCESS

[TravisB]

Originally Posted by Mean 69

Thanks Travis, and yes, we will be doing many more like products for various cars in the near future. Current plans are to do a front subframe for second gen F bodies (projected release February '06), a first gen subframe, and then we will be looking at different platforms, including Mustangs, other GM cars, and Mopar as well. If you have some ideas or needs, we'd love to hear about them.

Here are a couple of pic's of the first gen crossmembers. We should have some pic's of the rear end housing in a day or two, as well as the Watt's bracket. Moving steadily along. Matt won't let either Katz or myself weld any production stuff, it's an ongoing internal joke for us. Here's an example why.

Mark

Cool....that is a nice looking piece mark welds look nice! I was just wondering seems like the camaros are always taken car of first then companys usually start on other stuff I was just interested in what else you had in mind.

Thanks for the info MARK good luck, products look nice!

[race-rodz]

just outa curiousity.... what kinda products for early mustangs are ya thinkin about?

[Mean 69]

Rodz, at this point we have a couple of ideas in concept only. It would be natural for us to do a three link derived off of the F body deal, and we will most likely do that, but the front stuff is a bit different due to the "fixed" front frame. The stock frame structure is decent enough to build off of, thankfully, but it might make better sense when we look deeper into it to remove the front and replace with a new setup. It will certainly be a front steer rack and pinion based unit, and rather than design a system "around" an off the shelf rack, our approach is to start with the suspension, and then develop a rack to compliment "it." If you have ideas, we'd love to hear about them.

The early Mustangs make terrific track cars due to their light weight. It makes everything a lot easier, you don't need as much power, brakes become more effective, etc. There are lot of them too, especially coupes. I can't think of a better supported car in terms of replacement parts (i.e. body panels, trim pieces, etc), so it kind of baffles me why there aren't more of them in the "PT" theme. We have a 65 Fastback, but that car will likely be prepared in vintage legal trim next year, so when it comes time for product development, we will likely do a mid 60's coupe.

Mark

[race-rodz]

welllllllll.......... here is my $.02 on the mustang idea.... and i just happen have my 64 1/2 coupe sittin up on the chassis table right now. initially i thought about doin the SN65 treatment(full sn95 "pan"), ... but finally decided against it for a few reasons. so im bck to square one.

now this is really a backburner project, as my 34 truck is priority after paying jobs.... so i have been mostly thinkin about different ways of doin it.

i have a few priorities with the project that seem to be the biggest problem, #1, the car will be a daily driver, weekend autocross/track car. #2, the car will be really low... most mustangs are usually about 1-2" lower than stock, mine should sit about 3-4" lower than stock.

the first problem i have with the early mustang platform........ is the complete lack of anything structural....... frame connectors are at best just a bandaid for the piss poor structural design. the fixed front rails are really nothin more than 16-18ga sheetmetal, and really rely on the shock towers and the rest to hold it all together....as its a true unibody. an aftermarket weld in crossmember that gets rid of the shock towers has got to be one of the "sketchiest" things that can be done to the early mustangs, granted for 99% of the people that just "cruise" their cars.... its more than enough, not for me.

well for my project i already decided it will use a 3 link on a sn 8.8 (track width will be more as i want minor flares) i really like the design of the top mount that you have pictured... so something similar will be worked out for this car. the rear is the easy part.... now working forward. a complete chassis stiffening kit, similar to what mustangs plus sells, ties the rockers to the t-boxes f&r, then ties back to the frame connectors. it also increases the size and effectivness of the the front torque boxes....and drasticaly increases the strength of the rockers... which in any unibody car are extremly inportant.

now that we have the chassis rigid from the firewall back we start with the front frame "stub"... and this is the point where i am at on the mental drawing board. ideally you would make something that ties into the factory rails...unfortunatly, they are way too thin to tie anything into... and without the towers...they are nothin more than sheetmetal spot welded to the floor pan.... so in reality.... the stub would need to be constructed with the sfc's as part of it. the front of the stub would triangulate back to the top of the beefed up t-box.

for front suspension i was planning on a sn based "k-member" converted to sla setup, and use a hub carrier type upright, so 13"sn cobra brakes could be used.

the main downfall to this whole set-up is gonna be added weight, and obviously install. i cant see the weight difference being more than 100-150 lbs, after the stock "everything" is gone and new "everything" fabbed up outa lil heavier material, i think its a small price to pay for a stable and rigid platform without a full cage. the install is what the real killer is, as there is nothing "bolt-on" about it, major welding and fitting issues will prohibit the average guy from stepping up to the whole system. where this isnt a big deal for me in my one off situation, it would be for 99% of potential customers.

this really sounds overkill...and probably is. but IMHO early mustangs are crap, they were the geo metros of the 60's never ment to become true muscle cars, so by expecting them to handle and perform with todays "standards" the entire system needs a complete rework.

i have driven quite a few early mustangs, one of which was a gt350 coupe(1 of 6).... i got to flog it around the kart track(our local autocross venue), and while the car was better set-up for road racing than my car, i found it to have the same "issues" with chassis flex and poor steering, inconsistant "feeling" etc....as EVERY early mustang i have ever driven with "stock" chassis config. so yeah.... overkill for one guy...means its just about right for someone like me

anyway...these are just my ideas.... i cant wait to hear what you have in store....... as you said...there really is no "support" for the early mustang crowd. (im leaving out 1 place.... as i dont like them, after talkin on the phone with them, gxxxxs motorsports can kiss my a$$)