Older Richmond 5-Speed in My 1969 Firebird

[Ron Fox]

Good one Flash.

This may sound like an odd question but would a high hp motor like yours with a low rpm 5th gear (2200) damage the motor in anyway?

Thanks.

[Flash68]

Originally Posted by Ron Fox

Good one Flash.

This may sound like an odd question but would a high hp motor like yours with a low rpm 5th gear (2200) damage the motor in anyway?

Thanks.

No damage at that rpm that I am aware of. I have EFI which definitely helps, but if you are carbed and running at maybe 2000rpm or much lower you could get some bogging and bucking I guess? I don't know at what point/scenario some specific damage might occur though. I'll let someone more knowledgeable answer that one.

[GregWeld]

[Ron Fox]

I know I know but I can only learn by asking questions.

Thanks.

[Ron Fox]

Let me ask this question.

What first gear and what rear gear would I need to have a comfortable take off from 1st to 2nd gear in bumper to bumper traffic or pull up in and backing up in a parking spot without the car wanting to take off on me? (with 600+ hp)

Thanks.

[camcojb]

Originally Posted by Ron Fox

Let me ask this question.

What first gear and what rear gear would I need to have a comfortable take off from 1st to 2nd gear in bumper to bumper traffic or pull up in and backing up in a parking spot without the car wanting to take off on me? (with 600+ hp)

Thanks.

it doesn't work that way. Just because it has 600 hp does not mean it wants to "take off on you......." You still control the gas pedal.

[GregWeld]

Ron --

You need to understand HORSEPOWER.... You don't have "600 Horsepower" at idle or just off idle -- or even at 1500 rpms....

The questions you're asking are just all wrong. Nobody can answer them. There are so many variables - like tire size - cam - cubic inches - rear gear...

Is the motor RADICAL - or is it a pretty tame build - that just happens to make that HP - a Twin Turbo small block can make 1000 hp and drive like a Lexus around town... a big block Pontiac will make so much low end torque (the only good part of any Pontiac motor) that you won't need HORSEPOWER - which by the way - is ONLY a mathematical equation of how much TORQUE you make and what RPMS you're turning...

So if you're big block motor is built with a .700 lift cam - with radical duration - and doesn't make ANY torque below 2500 RPMs -- you're going to have a motor that SUCKS big time for the kind of driving you're asking about... but if you build a nice big block Pontiac with 455 cubic inches and are making 400 ft lbs of TQ at 2000 rpms --- it's going to drive easy - and like a street car should. It's going to FEEL powerful - without being a beast to drive.

So if you build a drivetrain like everyone is telling you to --- a 500 hp 455 Pontiac - Tremec 5 or 6 speed OVERDRIVE - 3:70ish rear gears.... 18" 40 series or 19" 35 series tires -- you're going to have a very nice combo that you'd love to drive and will be hugely powerful without issues. You want to snot it up a couple of notches and start making 700 hp - then it's still all about the CAM and where it makes it's power... and THEN you figure what gears/tranny you NEED to make that combo work.

[Vegas69]

Originally Posted by Ron Fox

Good one Flash.

This may sound like an odd question but would a high hp motor like yours with a low rpm 5th gear (2200) damage the motor in anyway?

Thanks.

I can cruise at 1600-2000 rpm in 5th with mine and it's got a pretty big cam on a 114 lobe separtation. Of course I only do it on flat ground under minimum loads. Big block torque.

[Ron Fox]

Originally Posted by Vegas69

I can cruise at 1600-2000 rpm in 5th with mine and it's got a pretty big cam on a 114 lobe separtation. Of course I only do it on flat ground under minimum loads. Big block torque.

Is there any possibility of damaging the motor (with a high hp or even a not so high hp motor) if rpm's go below a certain number?

Thanks.

[David Pozzi]

My wife has a Richmond 5 speed in her 73 Camaro. To me it's about as hard to shift as a Muncie 4 speed, maybe a little bit stiffer. It got a lot easier to shift after some break in miles, we use regular non-synthetic oil. Mary loves it and has no complaints, but the shift effort is more than a T56. We have the Hurst shifter which is probably easier to shift than the Long shifter, the long has a shorter stick.

I love the closer gear spacing of the Richmond, but it MUST be used with a 3:08 rear gear or taller. I drove a BB Chevelle with a Richmond and 3:73 rear gears the gears were WAY too close and close gears are not needed with BB torque. You really feel this when just loafing along from a stop light and you are rowing through the gears just to get up to 65 mph. I think the Richmond is more suited to a small block, especially a higher revving small block.

I have been told they are not as strong as the other choices out there. The Richmond has a 450 foot lb rating. This is probably a conservative rating allowing the trans to last many many miles. It does lack support of the gear train in the center which is where failures are reported. The main case splits in half so it's very easy to work on. 5th gear ratio is 1 to 1 so the drive shaft is not spinning faster than your engine.

With your hp and torque, I'd look at a Tremec or T56, especially if you want to do hard drag launches. Common performance gearing for the T56 is 3:90, but you may want to gear a bit lower numerically.
Here's a gear chart I did for our Richmond to plot shift points and rpm drops. Follow the chart to your shift rpm, then draw a line down to the next gear to read your rpm's you will be at after the shift.

FYI, a new Richmond is around $1900. The Hurst shifter is another $300, plus shipping and tax, then add a new yoke.



Here is a tremec for comparison. I did this chart a few years ago, so this isn't the newest Tremec model. Verify the gear ratios of whatever Tremec you are considering.