NEW RideTech Modular Front Sway Bar

[JRouche]

Originally Posted by darren@ridetech

Similar design to a splined bar, but the arms are bolting to a flange that is welded to the tube.

Ahhh, got it now. I cant see the welded flange from the outside pics. I gotta ask.. Why not go with splined bars and arms? Is it to keep any difficulties out of the picture for the customers mounting it up? Makes sense, its a purpose built unit for a certain car. No need for splined bars.

Welded flanges? Hmmm. Spring steel bar, alloy flanges too right? Not second guessing the designers, just curious... JR

[skatinjay27]

Originally Posted by JRouche

Ahhh, got it now. I cant see the welded flange from the outside pics. I gotta ask.. Why not go with splined bars and arms? Is it to keep any difficulties out of the picture for the customers mounting it up? Makes sense, its a purpose built unit for a certain car. No need for splined bars.

Welded flanges? Hmmm. Spring steel bar, alloy flanges too right? Not second guessing the designers, just curious... JR

heres what brett said when tyler asked about the flange design.
The arms bolt to the flanges that are welded to the mild steel DOM main bar. The reason there are 3 bolts instead of 4 is simply tire clearance. I am running a 245/40-18 tire on a 18 x 8 rim. The tire just kisses the subframe at full lock under severe cornering...just enough to wear off the paint. Sitting still there is no contact at all.
I was concerned a bit about the strength of the flange connection but after running this setup in Velocity since May for over 6000 miles I am comfortable with the flange design. The splined connection is great, except I have a plasma cutter and I don't have a broach, hence the flanged connection!
The hollow bar has a wall thickness is .134". The bar is not rate adjustable, although that is not a bad idea. It is also not heat treated. While common wisdom says you gotta have a heat treated bar, I've been running a mild steeel DOM bar on my C10 truckfor over 2 years. I take it off every 4-5 months to see if it has taken a set or twisted in some way, but its still good. So is the one on Velocity.
The main bar is contoured like the original and will clear an LS1 in a stock subframe. I am confident that it will clear normal SBC and BBC applications as well, but I have not personally tried them.

[JRouche]

Oh wow!!! Ok.. Never heard of using mild steel for a sway bar. New to me. My opinion? Not a good idea.

A sway bar is a spring. A torsion bar. It sees alot of loading and unloading. And a properly designed sway bar ( I dont like to call them that, I like to call them roll bars but it can get confused) will be loose and get very tight. Spring steel can handle that.

Mild steel doesnt have the flex thats needed for a roll bar. Mild steel will resist the twisting but at a different rate. And the rate will change over time, it will get softer.

We use alloy steel for springs for a few reasons. One is the ability to hold its shape through constant motions. And the other is durability.

Anyone can take a piece of mild steel wire and see the diff. Bend a piece of mild steel wire. It will succumb to the bending and stay in the as bent shape. You can bend it back and forth a few times. Then it breaks.

But thats one of the high qualities of mild steel. It is malleable. More so than alloy (spring) steel.

So you can get away with making a part from mild steel when it should be made from alloy. But it wont live up to the needs of the alloy, and will fail IF the conditions are correct.

You would NEVER make a suspension spring with mild steel, for that matter, any spring. Why start with a roll bar..

And a roll bar, sway bar or whatever you want to call it is a spring.

I would never buy a sway bar that is made from mild steel. And anyone trying to sell one should go back to the engineering department to find out why they are trying to sell it. Stinks of money issues.. JR

Originally Posted by skatinjay27

heres what brett said when tyler asked about the flange design.
The arms bolt to the flanges that are welded to the mild steel DOM main bar. The reason there are 3 bolts instead of 4 is simply tire clearance. I am running a 245/40-18 tire on a 18 x 8 rim. The tire just kisses the subframe at full lock under severe cornering...just enough to wear off the paint. Sitting still there is no contact at all.
I was concerned a bit about the strength of the flange connection but after running this setup in Velocity since May for over 6000 miles I am comfortable with the flange design. The splined connection is great, except I have a plasma cutter and I don't have a broach, hence the flanged connection!
The hollow bar has a wall thickness is .134". The bar is not rate adjustable, although that is not a bad idea. It is also not heat treated. While common wisdom says you gotta have a heat treated bar, I've been running a mild steeel DOM bar on my C10 truckfor over 2 years. I take it off every 4-5 months to see if it has taken a set or twisted in some way, but its still good. So is the one on Velocity.
The main bar is contoured like the original and will clear an LS1 in a stock subframe. I am confident that it will clear normal SBC and BBC applications as well, but I have not personally tried them.

[pro-tour79]

JR, sway bars, anti roll bars, stay bars, most are made from high carbon steel that is an industry standard, as long as the bar is not subjected to more than 30* of deflection, auto manufacturers are even using it on trucks but this is where the trouble can start, high amounts of suspension travel causes the steel to be bent past it's yield strength causing work hardened spots and eventual failure, this is where alloys are superior, hollow sway bars should always be made of alloy materials because without the support in the center the hollow tube is deformed past it's yield strength more quickly (the tube collapses on itself) even with less suspension travel.

[JRouche]

Originally Posted by pro-tour79

JR, sway bars, anti roll bars, stay bars, most are made from high carbon steel that is an industry standard, as long as the bar is not subjected to more than 30* of deflection, auto manufacturers are even using it on trucks but this is where the trouble can start, high amounts of suspension travel causes the steel to be bent past it's yield strength causing work hardened spots and eventual failure, this is where alloys are superior, hollow sway bars should always be made of alloy materials because without the support in the center the hollow tube is deformed past it's yield strength more quickly (the tube collapses on itself) even with less suspension travel.

I get the use of high carbon steel for roll bars, its heat treatable. You can make a spring from it. But mild steel which has a carbon content of between .16-.25 % of the total mix should not be used for a roll bar.. There is not enough carbon in mild steel to do any heat treating so you cant make a spring out of it.

So when I saw this (below) I was having some issues. Might be a mis-speak, I do it all the time. But you cant make a roll bar (sway bar, anti-roll bar) from mild steel. I dont think anyone does. And if they do they arent making a roll bar. They are just putting a common steel bar in an application that it doesnt belong. I just think it should be clarified so a guy doesnt think he can get some mild steel bar or tube and make up a roll bar. It will bend and break. JR

Originally Posted by skatinjay27 View Post
heres what brett said when tyler asked about the flange design.
The arms bolt to the flanges that are welded to the mild steel DOM main bar.

[pro-tour79]

As I mentioned yes high carbon steel is widly used for sway bars as long as it is not flexed past it flex limit about 30*, all sway bar manufacturers use it for cost reasons it does not need to be heat treated, alloy bars are hot formed or forged but need to be heat treated this is why the cost is often double or more.

[JRouche]

Originally Posted by pro-tour79

As I mentioned yes high carbon steel is widly used for sway bars as long as it is not flexed past it flex limit about 30*, all sway bar manufacturers use it for cost reasons it does not need to be heat treated, alloy bars are hot formed or forged but need to be heat treated this is why the cost is often double or more.

Not trying to sound nit-picky But high carbon steel doesnt get much benefit of its "spring" qualities unless its heat treated. In its annealed state it does not make a very good roll bar. Might as well use mild steel or low carbon steel. JR