DSE vs TCI vs Art Morrison

[slow4dr]

Originally Posted by David Pozzi

TCI has been building street rod stuff for a long time and their market niche is low buck bread and butter builds. Their sub reflects this in using a Mustang II type spindle they make themselves instead of using an Aluminum Corvette assembly. There is a small weight penalty for using more steel parts but it may only be a few lbs. I drove their Camaro at the test and it was easy and pleasant to drive at an autocross. Their choice of springs was on the stiff side and I suggested they soften the spring rates to help that. The TCI car was just built prior to the Super Chevy test, and as far as tuning goes, they were quite fortunate to do so well in their first test, and should have a better ride compromise as far as springs, bars, and shocks after running the car more, - which they plan on doing.

David

Thanks for the clarification about the spring rates on the TCI Camaro Dave.

The springs rates that were used that day were 50 lbs heavier front and 100 lbs heavier rear than what is in the car now. The reason being is our car was completely untested 24 hours before the event so we had a bit of guess work for spring rates on our hands. We had plans to install the TigerCage and interior before the event so we sprung it a little heavy in preparation. Unfortunately, time did not allow these items to be installed or the springs to be changed before the event. Needless to say the springs that are in the car today are exactly what the customer will receive when they purchase a kit and it rides & handles much better now.

My thinking is if it ran that good untuned just wait til it is dialed in.

See you guys/gals in Vegas this weeked!



-J

[Blake Foster]

Great thread!!
lots of options no question about it, and i think Frank Or Vegas asked the most important ? "What are you using the car for?" that is the first ? that needs to be answered.
then you can formulate a plan that makes sence from there.

[Gandalf]

All excellent advice and I concur - decide what the goals and budget are and start there. You've started by asking the right questions for sure and I have been through the same process as have others. And I cannot help but watch Mary blast that 2nd gen of hers around the track with a stock sub and Hotchkis kit! Impressive and as someone here suggested, a lot of it is the driver. Not to hijack this great thread but in the spirit of helping another member....I see you are just north of me (I'm in San Diego) so IF you decide to go with modified stock, I have some unused first gen suspension that I'm probably not going to use. PM me if interested.

I have a really clean, welded and fresh powdercoated stock sub, some Del-a-lum bushed, powdercoated UCA & LCA's with QA1 coilovers, Hotchkis front bar and a set of Landrum rear springs and bushings. I also have a complete, brand new, soup-to-nuts Hotchkis TVR setup for a first gen including the UCA's, LCA's, 4 lowered springs, 2 sway bars and their Bilstein shocks for front and rear plus all the bushings, brackets and hardware. I think there's even a late model, rebuilt steering box here somewhere. These were going on other projects that I'm not going to get to anytime soon so I'm sure we could work something out if you decide to go that route. I don't think Frank will mind because I buy all my stuff from him anyway!

But again, check on your goals and make a plan. It will change anyway but start with a plan LOL!

G.

[Bobs 67Camaro]

It was my understanding that the TCI car ran 450#/in ft and 325 #/in rear for the 2009 Super Chevy Competition. (which apparently rode rough--per Super Chevy May 2010). Now they sell kits with 350/250 # coils. (these rates are assuming an LS2 or LS3 Block). I would assume that they have a rather soft ride in comparison?

I spoke with Roger from Speedtech, (thanks for the help!), and he stated that they sell the track time package with 450/220# coils. (these rates are assuming an LS2 or LS3 Block) Unless I'm missing something, wouldn't the Speedtech system ride nearly as rough as the originally tested TCI Car given the 450# rates?

Thanks in advance for you input.
Bobby

[6spdcamaro]

Originally Posted by Bobs 67Camaro

It was my understanding that the TCI car ran 450#/in ft and 325 #/in rear for the 2009 Super Chevy Competition. (which apparently rode rough--per Super Chevy May 2010). Now they sell kits with 350/250 # coils. (these rates are assuming an LS2 or LS3 Block). I would assume that they have a rather soft ride in comparison?

I spoke with Roger from Speedtech, (thanks for the help!), and he stated that they sell the track time package with 450/220# coils. (these rates are assuming an LS2 or LS3 Block) Unless I'm missing something, wouldn't the Speedtech system ride nearly as rough as the originally tested TCI Car given the 450# rates?

Thanks in advance for you input.
Bobby

The ride quality depends on the motion ratio and the spring rate. In simple terms, if the spring is farther out towards the ball joint, it has a higher motion ratio and the spring is more effective. If the same spring is moved closer to the bushings of the control arm, the motion ratio is decreased and so is the spring effectiveness and the ride will get softer.
What will effect the ride quality is the final wheel rate. This is determined based on the spring rate and the motion ratio.

For the rear suspension, as far as I know, both set ups have springs mounted directly to the axle housing and therefore have a 1:1 motion ratio, so the springs are a direct comparison.

Shocks are also a huge part of ride quality, and should not be overlooked. Adjustables are a major help as you can tune them down for the street.

Hope that helped

[Blake Foster]

so here is what i run in ResurreXion our Nova
Track Time Front and rear obviously
LS2 with a t56, and 500lb front and 220 rear springs, and i can tell you, as can the guys from Super Chevy the car rides beautifully, you would not begin to call it harsh or rough, so on our system to run a 450 in the front with a LS for street/ agressive driving is PERFECT! i decided to run the 500 for a comparison and wouldn't change them, i have driven the car 250 miles non stop and it wasn't the least bit uncomfortable. if you want to run the shocks on full Stiff it may be too stiff. i have not tried it because it is not required.

[Bobs 67Camaro]

Thanks Ken and Blake,

I wonder how the current TCI system rides....

Would you recommend single adjustable Coil overs for someone who does more street driving than track time (to help with the budget?) It seems as though the doubles maybe unnecessary from someone who is not so serious....

(I presume the Track time package comes with single adj?)

Thanks

[slow4dr]

Originally Posted by 6spdcamaro

For the rear suspension, as far as I know, both set ups have springs mounted directly to the axle housing and therefore have a 1:1 motion ratio, so the springs are a direct comparison.

They are mounted directly to the axle but they are laid over roughly 20 degrees. Effectively removing 15%-20% of its tension.

Mary has driven the car as recently as October with the softer springs so maybe she can chime in to how it rides with an unbiased opinion. I am not sure whether they lay theirs over at the same angle to be directly comparable.

I would compare the heavier springs ride quality to a LX/LY SRT8 with Eibach springs. With the lighter springs I would compare it to a stock SRT8.

Anyone local to SoCal is more than welcome to come take a ride in the car and make your own conclusions.

[youthpastor]

great thread