With more PT cars being tracked is it changing PT vendors product offerings?

[Stuart Adams]

Originally Posted by Vegas69

I'm not sure I agree with you Stuart. With the new treadwear ratings the extra power may prove to be a disadvantage or a very slight advantage.

Todd, you know I love your car and respect you, so disageeing with me is no biggie, I'm not very smart most of the time. I've just noticed some trends. We all can agree about suspension components, brakes ,etc as being a huge upgrade from stock. I've just noticed cars like DSE's test cars, Scott's car, Air rides stuff, Penny, Jackass, your new powerplant in your car, and Marks amazing almost done car, that hp is not low. And it just make sense to me that if the weight can be kept down somewhat while increasing hp then that will be better. I also know some tracks won't matter as much, but overall it is better IMO.

I don't see you building a new motor with less hp!!

More tire up front is a huge deal IMO, but that's just me.

[rogue]

Originally Posted by Stuart Adams

Todd, you know I love your car and respect you, so disageeing with me is no biggie, I'm not very smart most of the time. I've just noticed some trends. We all can agree about suspension components, brakes ,etc as being a huge upgrade from stock. I've just noticed cars like DSE's test cars, Air rides stuff, Penny, Jackass, your new powerplant in your car, and Marks amazing almost done car, that hp is not low. And it just make sense to me that if the weight can be kept down somewhat while increasing hp then that will be better. I also know some tracks won't matter as much, but overall it is better IMO.

I don't see you building a new motor with less hp!!

More tire up front is a huge deal IMO, but that's just me.

HP is high because the owners are compromising for a lack of driver talent. I admit this with my own car. More tire up front is the biggest deal, I agree 100%.

The jury is out on whether or not aftermarket subframes, LSX engines, 3 links, and all the latest goodies make a fast car or not. The only way of testing it would be to use 1 driver, 1 track, multiple cars and tracking data. In my own heavily biased and sometimes obnoxious opinion most of the aftermarket parts we are so blessed to have are shiny bling, nothing more.

Good ole leaf springs, a modified stock subframe, a decent amount of power, and a decent driver will go a LOT farther than a guy whos never spent any seat time at a track with a 150k pro-touring car....

Point is, spend more time on the track, get faster. You can spend all you want on your car, or as little, the guy that spends more time out driving will always be faster.

Speaking of which, any of you interested in skip barber this year? Todd? Once I'm recovered from this surgery I have the itch to go to laguna seca and drive up as well.

[Matt@BOS]

Originally Posted by rogue

Speaking of which, any of you interested in skip barber this year? Todd? Once I'm recovered from this surgery I have the itch to go to laguna seca and drive up as well.

What kind of Skip Barber class do you have in mind, there are a ton of options. In any case, I think it would be cool to have a group of pro-touring guys at a driving school, everyone could always learn more, regardless of experience.

And yes, as for what has been said about horsepower, I would have to agree that a lot of the owners out there are building engines with power outputs that far exceed usefulness due to driver skill, or lack there of, and I think it is because everyone wants to be able to compete with cars like Bad Penny or Jackass, which both have very competent drivers capable of handling north of 600 horsepower.

Matt

[Stuart Adams]

Doesn't take very long to want 700 hp after driving 600.

[Ron in SoCal]

Originally Posted by Stuart Adams

Doesn't take very long to want 700 hp after driving 600.

It's a sickness called 'ten-more-itis'

You wanna go faster? You gotta spend 10 more G's...

[rogue]

Originally Posted by Stuart Adams

Doesn't take very long to want 700 hp after driving 600.

Agreed. Only thing keeping me from doing heads/cam/intake is the fact that I know *I* am the limiting factor in getting the car faster. That'd put me just under 600whp.

I lack the testicles and confidence to enter turn 8 at big willow at 150mph... I think 650-700whp is manageable in a first gen as long as its setup right. I believe the minitub trend of stuffing steamrollers in the back isn't about traction as much as it is for looks. A leftover trend from streetrodding and pro-street.

I have minimal issues with traction on R888s and 460whp 510ft/lbs...

[rogue]

Originally Posted by 69MSA

What kind of Skip Barber class do you have in mind, there are a ton of options. In any case, I think it would be cool to have a group of pro-touring guys at a driving school, everyone could always learn more, regardless of experience.

And yes, as for what has been said about horsepower, I would have to agree that a lot of the owners out there are building engines with power outputs that far exceed usefulness due to driver skill, or lack there of, and I think it is because everyone wants to be able to compete with cars like Bad Penny or Jackass, which both have very competent drivers capable of handling north of 600 horsepower.

Matt

Bad Penny has the best mod out there, a driver with a lot of experience

/pokes steve

[Vegas69]

Corner entry speed isn't going to change regardless of power at the rear wheels. My old engine made 491rwhp and 497 rwtq and it was very managable during a fast autocross. The new engine is 75hp and 54 ftlbs stouter at the flywheel. It's now a handful. My opinion is you will need to be a much better driver the more power you put under the hood. How many 1000hp drag cars have you seen run 12's? Ryan Mathews in the DSE car almost taking out the cobra on the road course is a prime example. That car makes South of 500/500 at the tires. I doubt you see DSE with 700-800hp. I don't think the chassis can handle it. Meaning, decent traction in the first three gears. Let's not forget I'm running R888's and all the events will be 200 treadwear. Do I think Stielow can handle 800hp. Yep, but most of you can't. Putting down that kind of power in a straightline with a well prepared track is a different ballgame than a road course or autocross. I wouln't want anymore power.....there is a point where you over power your chassis, tires, and you run out of talent.

[fleetus macmullitz]

Since a number of people don't frequent both boards, I also started the same title thread on pro-touring.com and
Jimi Day posted this...

"I think there's been several companies that made parts to stand up to track days even before the popularity of these events that we see today. I'm lucky to get to work with many of these companies on a daily basis. I can tell you without a doubt that those companies that have always made great parts are making them even better, and all the others have upped their game substantially. The "street car" track events are definitely making a difference and creating change."