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Old 07-14-2010, 08:47 AM
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DSE runs boosters on both cars I believe. Meaning they probably have no problem covering it up with power brakes. 1 1/8 master

Let's get back to Matt's problem. He doesn't neccesarily have a knockback problem. He has a leak. I still feel the fluid gets through the bearing itself or a portion. Sealed bearings aren't meant to be submerged in oil. They should in theory be able to withstand it but I'm not so sure. I'm interested to see what Cris has cooking.
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Old 07-14-2010, 09:15 AM
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if your running sealed bearings then just buy some inner seals, that you install when the 3rd member is pulled.
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Old 07-14-2010, 09:19 AM
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an oil seal they use on circle track cars that installs near the center section to keep the oil from roping down the axle or running down the tube. Use that coupled with the seal that is suppose to be behind the bearing and you should be good.

Have you checked the housing for straightness in a jig?
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Old 07-15-2010, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Payton King View Post
an oil seal they use on circle track cars that installs near the center section to keep the oil from roping down the axle or running down the tube. Use that coupled with the seal that is suppose to be behind the bearing and you should be good.

Have you checked the housing for straightness in a jig?
Just a note on the inner axle seals. DO NOT USE THEM! I went through several manufacturers of them when I raced circle track. In every case oil would get past the seal and fill up the right axle tube and trap the oil there. This then starves the center section for lube. Luckily it never bit me, but several people lost several gear sets until this was figured out. They were used in our case not to solve a leak as we used full floaters. We needed to keep the lube from leaving the gear set and traveling up the tube and starving the bearings. In the end it actually magnified the problem over time. I will never use them again!
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Old 07-15-2010, 08:42 PM
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I put a single disc parking brake on my Ford 9" --- bolts onto the yoke -- has a hand brake style lever - it's own disc (tiny) -- it's a PARKING BRAKE not an "emergency brake".


http://www.tsmmfg.com/Pinion_Mounted_Parking_Brakes.htm


Mark -- Good info on the residual valves not working. I didn't think they would because that's not really their job... but thought maybe it might help.



Gonzo -- Can I tell ya sumthin....
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Old 07-14-2010, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vegas69 View Post
DSE runs boosters on both cars I believe. Meaning they probably have no problem covering it up with power brakes. 1 1/8 master

Let's get back to Matt's problem. He doesn't neccesarily have a knockback problem. He has a leak. I still feel the fluid gets through the bearing itself or a portion. Sealed bearings aren't meant to be submerged in oil. They should in theory be able to withstand it but I'm not so sure. I'm interested to see what Cris has cooking.
Well actually... Right now I have a knockback issue and not a leak. It's pretty bad I even notice it on the street.

Ok, about the sealed bearing, according to Kyle, it will leak oil if you autocross it just because so much load is put on that area. With that amount of stress, something is going to deform a bit and let oil through. I do find it interesting though that it continues to leak afterwards under normal driving. Maybe the housing wasn't straightened after it was welded, but I doubt it.

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Old 07-14-2010, 09:54 AM
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One thing to remember is not everyone is forth coming with their problems. I shouldn't assume people don't have the problem. I can't imagine that folks wouldn't want to share their problems with the world. I can't believe DSE silicones in their axles between events. No way I would put up with that crap! Matt, what master cyinder and is there any booster or hydraboost?
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Old 07-14-2010, 10:01 AM
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Can we clarify what "knockback" actually is or feels like?
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Old 07-14-2010, 11:38 AM
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I've got manual brakes, a Wilwood 7/8" bore master cylinder to be precise.

Todd, I'm a bit surprised they just use silicone too. I guess for them it is the best solution for a street car. Since they race what they sell, and they predominantly sell to people who will almost never drive on the track, their setup makes sense. There would be no point in running a full floater on their cars and then selling the Torino Bearing 9" setup to the public. I do wish they sold a setup that was overkill though, I know I would buy it.

As for what knock back is, I think Greg might have posted a good link explaining it somewhere. Basically, under hard side loading, going around turns, there is enough stress on the bearings, and axle components that everything moves a bit causing deflection. What this does to the rotors could be compared to an outside wheel on an old car gaining positive camber around a turn. In other words the rotor flexes and is no longer perfectly parallel to the brake caliper, thus pushing the pads and pistons back. Then, when you need to brake and you step on the pedal, you get a really light feeling i.e. the pedal might fall halfway to the floor, or feel like it isn't bled properly. If you tap the brakes once and push the pistons back in place everything will feel normal again. I think, and correct me if I'm wrong, power boosters, like what DSE runs, will cut down on the amount of noticeable knock back feel, but doesn't address or cure the problem. On manual brakes like a bunch of us are running it is very noticeable. I've got a 7/8" Wilwood manual setup, and it does not inspire confidence before you tap the brakes up.

Here is a picture of one of our car's rear rotors. I think the reason I never noticed bad knockback sooner was because the rear calipers weren't evenly spaced and whenever I'd go around a hard turn, the rotors would grind against the retaining pins between the padlets on the C6 Z06 brakes. Because of this knockback was limited, and less apparent. The downside though, was that my rear brakes weren't ever working 100 percent.

You can see the ring caused by the deflection, where the rotors ground against the retaining pins:


Matt
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Old 07-14-2010, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g356gear View Post
Can we clarify what "knockback" actually is or feels like?
What it is....

http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_knockback.shtml
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