1968 Camaro "Badmotorfinger" v2.2

[GregWeld]

Originally Posted by Flash68

Yeah I know.. don't you love it when a guy calls and asks you for your advice for an hour and then does the opposite?

I guess if it doesn't work I'll blame it on Greg for telling me about it.

Like you said Todd, it's about as clear as mud on this deal on what exactly is the thing to do, so I'll be a guinea pig on this "exotic" gear.

Sometimes I just like to go my own way and learn the hard way. Been there done that.

I may have an inferior car, but my driver mod will be the x-factor.

See you on a DRY weekend in OC.

I can take the heat....


I've owned so many motors and been there and done that so many times that I've lost count. Trust me - this whole gear deal isn't what it used to be... I'd suggest that you've added additional stresses by adding the extra volume oil pump... so checking the distributor gear for you - might become a habit similar to running the valves and changing plugs...

One of the things that I try to do when going to shops - or to shows - or to stuff like SEMA etc -- is to try to sort stuff like this out. Directly from the "experts" like the factory boys. I personally like doing that more than looking at the pretty paint jobs. Even then I forget half of what I've found out. I found out at the Eaton booth - that running synthetic diff gear oil was a complete NO NO if you're running a posi.... seems the stuff is TOO SLICK. REALLY? Completely opposite of what a guy would "think" - until you talk to the guys that build 'em for a living. Who knew?

Anyway - good luck with the gear swap.... and glad you found it before you had a catastrophe at high rpms.

[Flash68]

Originally Posted by Vegas69

Ya, next time I see you calling at 9 I'll just politely miss your call. This gives me the opportunity to say I told you so. You don't know how much I'll appreciate that moment if it arrives.

Yeah yeah I know... I am really setting myself up here aren't I.

Next time I'll call you before your bedtime... like 7:30?

Originally Posted by GregWeld

I can take the heat....


I've owned so many motors and been there and done that so many times that I've lost count. Trust me - this whole gear deal isn't what it used to be... I'd suggest that you've added additional stresses by adding the extra volume oil pump... so checking the distributor gear for you - might become a habit similar to running the valves and changing plugs...

One of the things that I try to do when going to shops - or to shows - or to stuff like SEMA etc -- is to try to sort stuff like this out. Directly from the "experts" like the factory boys. I personally like doing that more than looking at the pretty paint jobs. Even then I forget half of what I've found out. I found out at the Eaton booth - that running synthetic diff gear oil was a complete NO NO if you're running a posi.... seems the stuff is TOO SLICK. REALLY? Completely opposite of what a guy would "think" - until you talk to the guys that build 'em for a living. Who knew?

Anyway - good luck with the gear swap.... and glad you found it before you had a catastrophe at high rpms.

I'm glad you let me know about this gear. Great to know about all the options out there.

And yes the HV oil pumps really seem to help add to the problem from all the info I have found. Switching to "lighter" oil and this poly gear material, in addition to blocking the oil bypass, are all the things that hope to get us on the right path here. If not, the gear material should all end up in the filter and we can go back to a bronze. Guess we'll find out.

Ya know, the advice on SEMA, etc. and being there to gain knowledge is a great call. I guess your years of experience does bring more to the table eh?

Thanks -- can you smell that BBQ? Rodger is probably fabbing some crazy custom gusseted BBQ with a blower on it for the meet up.

[GregWeld]

Originally Posted by Flash68

Thanks -- can you smell that BBQ? Rodger is probably fabbing some crazy custom gusseted BBQ with a blower on it for the meet up.

The boys from the North (EH?) are bringing pizza....

Have you ever been in Canada? I ordered a pepperoni pizza up there once while on the boat... I'm pretty sure it was bologna not pepperoni. The slices were like 4" in diameter... and I've never seen pepperoni that large have you?

PS -- Nothing wrong with a bronze gear. The "wrong gear" would be not checking it for wear on a regular basis. The poly carb gear is just "new tech" and has lots of testing behind it to show that it wears better than bronze... but doesn't mean that it's an install and forget piece either. To me - this is an issue like running a solid lifter motor... every once in awhile you have to run the rack. No biggie it's just maintenance.

I'd be checking the distributor after EVERY track day. That's when oiling is an issue... and it's when you're putting the most stresses on stuff. Takes nothing to pop it out take a peek and stab it back in... and it beats sitting like a FORD on the way home.

I run Pure Power oil filters.... They filter 100% of the oil. They have magnets installed (doesn't help for bronze) and they're cleanable and let me see what's up with every change. In my book $200 is CHEAP for a filter when it's on a motor with a $1000 crank in a $2500 block... Or in Todds case - a $5000 block.

[Flash68]

Originally Posted by GregWeld

Guys giving advice is all "guessing"....

Listen to Comp Cams not guesses.

Originally Posted by GregWeld

The boys from the North (EH?) are bringing pizza....

Have you ever been in Canada? I ordered a pepperoni pizza up there once while on the boat... I'm pretty sure it was bologna not pepperoni. The slices were like 4" in diameter... and I've never seen pepperoni that large have you?

PS -- Nothing wrong with a bronze gear. The "wrong gear" would be not checking it for wear on a regular basis. The poly carb gear is just "new tech" and has lots of testing behind it to show that it wears better than bronze... but doesn't mean that it's an install and forget piece either. To me - this is an issue like running a solid lifter motor... every once in awhile you have to run the rack. No biggie it's just maintenance.

I'd be checking the distributor after EVERY track day. That's when oiling is an issue... and it's when you're putting the most stresses on stuff. Takes nothing to pop it out take a peek and stab it back in... and it beats sitting like a FORD on the way home.

I run Pure Power oil filters.... They filter 100% of the oil. They have magnets installed (doesn't help for bronze) and they're cleanable and let me see what's up with every change. In my book $200 is CHEAP for a filter when it's on a motor with a $1000 crank in a $2500 block... Or in Todds case - a $5000 block.

Rich talked to Comp Cams while I called Lunati... the Comp tech seemed much more on the ball than the Lunati guy I talked to, plus there is much more detail on that Comp poly gear -- as well as lots of opinions out there -- like anything!

No Canada for me yet... curious about this pizza though. No more BBQ?

You're right on the maintenance -- I can't expect a hydraulic roller LSx type experience with a big solid roller high revving gen 1 sbc... gotta be committed to checking things often, esp after hard days on a track. No doubt.

Sounds like a badass filter. Your filter may be worth more than my block.

Hey Todd -- why the deleted post this morning? Were you being mean to Greg again? LOL Spill it!!

[Vegas69]

I was being mean to Greg and figured my advice would fall on deaf ears anway.

[Flash68]

Originally Posted by Vegas69

I was being mean to Greg and figured my advice would fall on deaf ears anway.

Touche..

[GregWeld]

Originally Posted by Vegas69

I was being mean to Greg and figured my advice would fall on deaf ears anway.

I didn't get the mean part. Everybody has an opinion and worthy discussion points. It's how someone makes an "informed" decision.

In the end -- none of us really give a crap what he decides to do as long as he's making a best effort, informed choice.

I see three choices:

Melonized

Bronze

Poly Carb

He's doing the right thing by studying the issue - calling manufacturers for their advice - and getting opinions here and anywhere else he can. However, I personally take the advice from the factory boys even if it take a couple calls a couple days apart or I have to "elevate" the discussion. I'd also call an engine builder or two to see if they have any valid thoughts.

This is straight off COMP CAMS website regarding this subject:

What Distributor Gear Should I Use With My Camshaft?


Matching camshaft and distributor gears is one of the most critical, yet often overlooked step in engine assembly. The proper distributor gear for your camshaft differs by both the material and the kind of lifter for which your camshaft was designed. Using the wrong material can lead to premature gear wear, possible camshaft wear and ultimately engine failure.

First off, no steel distributor gear is compatible with both flat tappet and hydraulic roller cams. This is because hydraulic rollers can be made from two possible materials and either of those materials requires a different gear than the flat tappet cam. Regardless, a steel gear is not compatible with a cast iron flat tappet cam.

Distributor Gear Materials:

1. Cast Iron

2. Composite (offers great life, conforms well to the mating cam gear, and is compatible with ANY camshaft gear material)

3. Melonized or hardened steel (material that OEMs use with factory roller cams; many aftermarket distributor manufacturers use these as the default gears for their distributors)

4. Bronze (conforms well to the mating camshaft gear and will not damage the camshaft gear, but it is a self sacrificing gear intended to be used in race applications only and should be replaced about once a year)


If you have a cast iron hydraulic or solid flat tappet cam, your distributor gear options are:

1. Cast iron distributor gear

2. Composite distributor gear


If you have an austempered ductile iron hydraulic or solid roller cam, your two options are:

1. Melonized or hardened steel distributor gear

2. Composite distributor gear


If you have a billet steel hydraulic or solid roller cam, your two options are:

1. Bronze distributor gear

2. Composite distributor gear


COMP Cams® recommends the composite gear because it is compatible with all camshaft gears – flat tappet, austempered cast iron cores, and billet cores. If the steel gear is not hardened, it is not compatible with either of the roller cam types.

Note: If you have an austempered core hydraulic roller cam and a .500” shaft distributor with a steel gear, verify with the manufacturer of the distributor that the steel gear they use is a melonized or hardened steel material and it will work fine.

[GregWeld]

Note the differences in materials here --- between austempered ductile iron vs billet steel cam core.

[projectile]

I'm with Todd, a melonized gear is best for the street. If you have time it would be a good idea to sacrifice a bronze gear first. No doubt the cam gear has some scuffing and galling. Running the bronze gear first will help to smooth and "polish" the cam gear before you install that expensive poly gear.I have done it once with success. I am running a bronze gear in my engine. I check it every 2000 miles when i check valve lash. I consider it regular maintenance. I just remove the cap and check the backlash at the distributor rotor. Only works if you dont have the advance mechanism cause of the play it has to the shaft-if that makes sense. Faster than removing the distributor...

[Flash68]

Originally Posted by projectile

I'm with Todd, a melonized gear is best for the street. If you have time it would be a good idea to sacrifice a bronze gear first. No doubt the cam gear has some scuffing and galling. Running the bronze gear first will help to smooth and "polish" the cam gear before you install that expensive poly gear.I have done it once with success. I am running a bronze gear in my engine. I check it every 2000 miles when i check valve lash. I consider it regular maintenance. I just remove the cap and check the backlash at the distributor rotor. Only works if you dont have the advance mechanism cause of the play it has to the shaft-if that makes sense. Faster than removing the distributor...

Thanks Ray -- I do have a little time -- how many miles would you suggest running the bronze gear? (we have the bronze MSD 8471 gear in it right now). There's probably 30 pretty hard miles on it so far with the bronze gear since the switch.

And we also have no advance on it and the dizzy is locked out.