Project 'Too Much': 1969 P1800S - soon to be P1800 GT

[DETON8R]

Nice updates on the project!!

I've looked at squeezing a C4 IRS and after talking to a few different frame builders there seemed to be a limit to the amount of tire width that could be squeezed into the rear end of that car with a C4 Vette IRS, as the stock hub-to-hub is around 63" and the narrowest most frame makers would go was usually in the 59" range, and with the car only 64-65" in the rear it would limit how wide the tires would be, unless there were fender flares. I'm over planning this aren't I???

Are you going 100% custom on that rear end? Or is there an aftermarket kit that makes that rear end kit and are you just welding that in?

[daemon2]

I have built the rear bracket for the c4 IRS from images I found online and stock c4 diagrams.
The rear is quite a bit wider, I have custom wheels that I had cut for this setup but will still have some work to do on the width of the body. I don't mind flares but also don't want to ruin the lines of the car. So I have to take it slow.
If I had that rendering back already...
I will post more updates when I can, I will be replacing the rear frame rails with a 2x3 frame and am currently considering a full frame under the car. I found rust in the rear portions of the rocker supports the other day.

I really wanted a deep dish wheel on the back but could only fit so much into the narrow body.

[DETON8R]

Thanks for the download on your frame design ideas and progress. I've looked at alternatives to a Vette/Jag/Ford T-Bird IRS, and while there are a few really custom set-up's there isn't a long track record on most of those custom set-ups. The only truly stock set-up that looks like it would work without changing the hub-to-hub distance is either a Miata or BMW 3-series. Both have a significant selection of aftermarket parts available (shocks, caster/camber kits, brakes, rotors, etc.) and can be upgraded to handle pro-touring engine power and abuse.

Sounds like you and I are in the same boat, the harder I look at the car the more rust/rot/damage I find, which has me leaning away from the Sweedish Ops replacement k-member and 4-link set-up. Besides, the more I think about blowing out the floor and going 100% custom, the more possibilities open up.

Good thing I have another car to finish before I make any commitments.......

[daemon2]

I've got a great artist working on my renderings, today I had a sneak peek at how its coming together.



I'm happy so far, its hard to build what you can't 'see'.

No rust on these...

[DETON8R]

Nice to have the ability to visualize your project beforehand. I don't think I'll get that luxury, so I'll have to borrow from your images. And anybody else that can send me their build info and photos. HA!!

What do they say, Imitation is the highest form of flattery!

I like the look of the curled flares rather than the flat flares like those that are found on the BMW M3 Roadster.

Looks like you will be using the stock wheel openings, then modifying those upper lips. I've been looking at the Vox renderings, and the build from Robert Jackson, and the wheel openings have been reworked in those builds, mostly looks like they just raised the top lip of the opening, and widened the opening overall, then added the flare. Also, I'd think about changing the wheel base (for better weight distribution, if it will make a difference worth the effort) if there are any advantages. The Vox rendering has a longer hood/front end and the longer hood is a bit more of the "Muscle Car" look instead of the "European Sports Car" look.

I've been looking at that and there are other ways to do that. The simplest way is to just extend the nose, in the same way that Carol Shelby extended the nose of the AC Ace and made it the AC Cobra. Not sure how much effort I'd expend at really extending the entire front end.

Any mods to the tail fins, head lights, bumpers, spoiler in the plans too?

Sorry, I'm just way too curious.

[Iamtheonlyreal1]

I dont mean to interrupt the thread here with pics of my builds, but I just wanted to point out that the Weight Balance wont really be off.. I will have these cars on the scales before too long, and I think everyone would be very surprised at what these cars weight distributions will be after all the mods and upgrades. I dont really think there is much need to extend the wheel base, because the V8's will sit in these cars in a better position than the OEM 4cyl.. If you notice, the front of the LS heads are at the spindle position, so there isnt really any overhange.. The Accessories of the motor is really the only thing forward of the spindle, and the Radiator is the only thing forward of the tires..

With all the mods and weight savings we have done with the crossmember/suspension kit, we will be within about 40 pounds of the original front end weight.. You also have to then take into account the motor actually sits about 4 inches further back than the OEM 4cyl, along with sitting in a lower postion, for a better center of gravity.

In these pics, the motor is fully accessorized, and mounted in position. The headers pictured, are our mock ups for production, and they are currently being set up for production.










I didnt extend the wheel base, but I think the front end mods did help in changing the appearance of the factory short nose. Rasing the Wheel Arches by far makes the most change in the overall appearance and stance of the car. I dont have the correct offset wheels on the car, so the front wheel seems to stick out a bit too much.. If you look at the first pic, you will see the appearance and ride height capability with the same 19 inch wheels as are pictured after the wheel arch mods..

[daemon2]

Can you corner weight your car and send me the numbers?

Originally Posted by Iamtheonlyreal1

I dont mean to interrupt the thread here with pics of my builds, but I just wanted to point out that the Weight Balance wont really be off..

[daemon2]

I have been playing with a few suspension simulators and trying to calculate a few things for the rear suspension geometry. The stock C4 had a 96.2 inch wheelbase and 3239 lbs, my P1800 had 96.5 inch wheelbase stock at about 2500lbs.



I am having problems with the Antisquat and centre of gravity because I have to guess on weight and distribution right now. I almost have to have the car finished so I can weigh it and calculate from there. ?

So what I am doing is lining up the wheel location, determined the location of the batwing and diff then I will work out the coilovers based on my estimated weight and ride height. This leave the location and angles for trailing arms without screwing up antisquat and roll centre.

But like I said, this is new to me. Any ideas?

I may want to extend the wheelbase but my feeling right now is that would only by a cosmetic change.

Hang in there with me, as the car comes along I'll share as much info as I can to help you with yours.

Originally Posted by DETON8R

Nice to have the ability to visualize your project beforehand. I don't think I'll get that luxury, so I'll have to borrow from your images. And anybody else that can send me their build info and photos. HA!!

What do they say, Imitation is the highest form of flattery!

I like the look of the curled flares rather than the flat flares like those that are found on the BMW M3 Roadster.

Looks like you will be using the stock wheel openings, then modifying those upper lips. I've been looking at the Vox renderings, and the build from Robert Jackson, and the wheel openings have been reworked in those builds, mostly looks like they just raised the top lip of the opening, and widened the opening overall, then added the flare. Also, I'd think about changing the wheel base (for better weight distribution, if it will make a difference worth the effort) if there are any advantages. The Vox rendering has a longer hood/front end and the longer hood is a bit more of the "Muscle Car" look instead of the "European Sports Car" look.

I've been looking at that and there are other ways to do that. The simplest way is to just extend the nose, in the same way that Carol Shelby extended the nose of the AC Ace and made it the AC Cobra. Not sure how much effort I'd expend at really extending the entire front end.

Any mods to the tail fins, head lights, bumpers, spoiler in the plans too?

Sorry, I'm just way too curious.