Shops, Shops and more shops

[GregWeld]

There's several factors going on IMHO...

People earning $35 or $40 an hour can't afford to pay people $80 and $95 and hour.... It takes 2000 hours or more to build a nice car... and I don't care if you're building a simple 32 Ford -- it's a 100 grand in parts....

Lots of people were using their houses as ATMs to build this stuff - when that got shut down - so did the builds...


As far as decent shops go... there are just too many horror stories in both directions. There's the guys that take their car to a body shop or so called "builder"... drop the car off... 2000 miles from their house... and then find out 3 years later the car hasn't been touched / or it's done hackeymotto.... OR the other scenario is - you go to a good shop - and have no friggin' idea what this stuff REALLY costs to do... that's when it's the OWNERS fault not the shops. People let their ego out spend their wallet then blame the shop.

I remember walking into a shop (nameless) in Huntington Beach when I was doing the Nomad... and after a big discussion -- and a shop tour -- I turned to the guy and said... "do any of these cars ever leave here?" The reason I asked is that there were 10+ cars sitting around that had 1/4" of bondo dust on them... parts strewn all over the place... and you could tell that they hadn't been touched in a very long time... He starts pointing to various cars - with a story about each one... "that guy hasn't paid for 6 months"... "that guy can only afford $2500 a month so we wait til we get 10 grand and do some work".... "that guy got cancer"... "that guy got a divorce"....

The big shops with the biggest names --- you see the cars built at some show -- and the rumors start flying.... "I heard that cost 1.2 million to build"... etc. So with that kind of "reputation" what NORMAL guy that could maybe afford a 250K car is going to even bother to call them!

[GregWeld]

I forgot to finish my "thoughts" before going to get another cup of coffee...


For the guy with enough "skills" and experience to do it himself.... having a nice space to work in at home is paramount. It adds some value to the house (to the right buyer)... and certainly adds value to the guy living there and building it!

Personally - I actually moved to my current house - just so I could have room to build a shop (30 X 50). And I still have things done professionally. The '32 was built at Steve's Auto Restoration (a HORRIBLE EXPERIENCE)... and then taken to BRIZIO to get it sorted out (a FABULOUS EXPERIENCE)... In the meantime my shop has allowed me to help my Sister and Brother in Law completely rebuild their '69 Camaro... work that they could NEVER afford to pay someone to do. If they could build a shop/garage on their property it would be the very first priority for them.

[sevillaz28]

I hear you guys. People have been ripped off and let down by many of the shops in the bay area and are getting tired of it. There are so "few" good shops around that can produce nice to excelent work in a timely manner.

I have built many cars for myself and other people as a hobby for the past 25 years and I have never heard so many complaints. Shops saying they can do a job and then hacking up a car or not knowing what they are doing so it takes forever to do a simple swap of some kind or the worst of it, taking a deposite on a project and never doing the work.

EBMC, your not to far from me and I know of a couple of people that have brought their cars to you and have been very happy.

Fesler, I think you are right on with the ratio of good "vs" bad. I think out here it might be even higher due to the ammount of shops that exist. As for the cost of building a 40x60 shop, There are a bunch of variables that can and will change the price of a building that size. I would guess in your area if you build a standard slab on grade pad and foundation, 2x4 walls 13 feet high, clear span truss roof frame, stucco and comp roof your in the 45k range and thats if its a free standing building. Sorry I don't have very many pics. I'm not much of a picture taker but i can get some for you next week if you like?

Mr Weld, Hope that second cup of coffee did some good. The ATM comment is unfortunately true. It not only helped the auto industry but also the consturction side as well and when the ATM broke, so did the rest of it. Roy Brizio is a top notch builder and has been from day one. Like you had said, your helping build a car that most likely could not be built because this sh!t's expensive to have quality work done. There are so few people that can afford a 250k car to be built and most people with that kind of money are investing, not spending.

I have a little spot I work on my cars at and I'm getting people in my area asking me to do work on their cars for them but its a hobby for me and I'm almost considering making it a career move just because I'm getting a little tired of construction. After 25 years of doing the same thing " Mind you I'm hands on all day and don't use many subs" It might be a nice change from the 14hr days to maybe a 9hr dy.

[SLO_Z28]

Originally Posted by sevillaz28

. I would guess in your area if you build a standard slab on grade pad and foundation, 2x4 walls 13 feet high, clear span truss roof frame, stucco and comp roof your in the 45k range and thats if its a free standing building. Sorry I don't have very many pics.

I was just talking about building a shop today, is that price with the foundation already laid, or including the foundation? I was talking to my friend(hes a framer in the 9109), and he thought we could get it done for around $22,000. We were looking at a 24x40 with 10 foot walls. This is for a friend of mine, we built his house pretty inexpensively and this seems like the next logical step.

[sevillaz28]

Originally Posted by SLO_Z28

I was just talking about building a shop today, is that price with the foundation already laid, or including the foundation? I was talking to my friend(hes a framer in the 9109), and he thought we could get it done for around $22,000. We were looking at a 24x40 with 10 foot walls. This is for a friend of mine, we built his house pretty inexpensively and this seems like the next logical step.

The cost I'm giving is for a new building from the dirt to the finish roof. You are right on the $22,000 for framing if that includes material and labor to erect the building on an existing slab and then you have the cost of the exterior finish and roof finish. I'm putting these up in about 35 to 45 working days from start to finish and the only thing I sub contract out is the concrete finish and stucco.

I helped with a GTM build and those cars can be a lot of fun. My friend had a twin turbo LS7 in his and it was just stupid fast, kind of like the Supercharged GT 500 fastback I built him that would spin the 315's at 70mph, fun but then not at the same time.

A friend of mine who builds some high quality cars is in the process of purchasing a big lot and wants me to build two 10ksqft buildings in the near future. I'm designing the buildings so he can have a full work/body shop in one building and the other building will be a finish building with a down draft spray booth, frame jig and finish staging area and a detail area. Its really a cool set up we just need to work out the cost and keep it in budget.

Building a house/car or doing a remodel for someone is a lot of fun for me especially if I'm able to give suggestions to the owner to make sure they get what they want and not just what they can afford. I listen to my clients and to what they are looking for as an end product and work off of that to give them the final product they expect.

[John510]

Originally Posted by GregWeld

The reason I asked is that there were 10+ cars sitting around that had 1/4" of bondo dust on them... parts strewn all over the place... and you could tell that they hadn't been touched in a very long time... He starts pointing to various cars - with a story about each one... "that guy hasn't paid for 6 months"... "that guy can only afford $2500 a month so we wait til we get 10 grand and do some work".... "that guy got cancer"... "that guy got a divorce"....
!

This is so true! I have experienced this with my shop. Each car that is there forever has a story.

[214Chevy]

Guys, I can't tell you how many shops I've been to just to look around. I go in to see what is going on and the owner has no idea of course that I'm into classics. He then begins to talk about all this jibberish about what they do. Of course he says, "Oh yeah, we can do anything you want." All the while I'm looking around the shops and don't see any major tools/machines/equipment which means he's lying thru his two front teeth. I love it when I ask to see a finished/painted project and he shows me the bondo'd up, wavy paint job car. I admit I was once green in the hobby and got taken for $3000. So, I can understand how it happens. I went to a shop that was supposedly respectable and had been in business for years. But, the guy was running his shop out of his front pocket. I kept giving him money as he said he would start on my car "next" and next never came. The ironic part is, the shop where my car is now, I went there first and initially thought he was too high because I didn't know what this hobby cost and how much work entailed restoring a car 40 years old. I drove it for about two years and was never really satisfied with the work done on the car. I suddenly realized that I had to do the car the right way and give the car its proper respect and due justice or nothing at all. Now it's at the current shop redoing everything the other a$$hole did wrong. But, just as Greg Weld said...for every one shop doing it right there are 20 others doing it wrong. The sad part about it all is they know they are doing it wrong, but will continue to charge you the "right way of doing things" prices. One last quick story and I really feel sorry for this guy because he has a 72 Chevelle just like me. He brought it in to the shop where my Chevelle is wanting just some very minor work. After a few days, the shop owner starts working on the car, he finds so much rust it is ridiculous. He calls the car owner back and tells him what he found and the car owner is in disbelief and thought the shop owner was lying. The shop owner stops the work and leaves the car the way it is for about a week until the car owner can get back by the shop to see all the rust that was supposedly taken out and removed. Needless to say the car owner was pissed to the highest degree. The car owner says he just had it painted and "supposedly" the other shop had removed all of the rust. To make a long story short, the car is being done right this time at the current shop, but only after replacing about $5000 worth of metal and body work. But, here's the sad part, he paid the deadbeat shop $6500 for the crap paint job and fake rust removal.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Originally Posted by John510

This is so true! I have experienced this with my shop. Each car that is there forever has a story.

very true but is it an accurate story...I believe yours had a story too but it wasn't your fault.

Even home builders need outside shops. Shops come and go, its just the way it is.

[sevillaz28]

Im going to put up some pics of a couple of shop additions Im doing and a garage conversion Im starting in a couple of weeks

[shaun8541]

Originally Posted by John510

This is so true! I have experienced this with my shop. Each car that is there forever has a story.

You and Greg both explain a big part of the problem, and I know exactly what shop you are talking about.

When I walk in some of these shops I can't believe how disorganized and messy they are, with projects sitting covered in dust, parts and tools strewn all over the place. It is unreal.

A lot of these shops have true talent working in them and if they just cleaned up there act a bit, I am sure they would have so much work they would have to turn some away.

It really isn't rocket science, a shop is a regular business and needs to be handled like one. Customers want fair and honest service, and to be kept in the loop on what is going on and what their money is going towards.

I can't tell you how many times I have had to ask shops for an invoice on where we stand, or just trying to get an honest timeline for project completion, etc. It is crazy. We wonder why our country is hurting right now, everyone is too lazy to do some of the hard work it requires to be successful.