3 point belt systems

[Sieg]

Originally Posted by parsonsj

Just remember that Schroth manufactures Sparco belts. They are the same thing with a different insignia, and is why Sparco won't sell individual belts.

Thanks I did not know that. It still appears that Schroth uses an upgraded buckle, correct? It also explains the DOT and non-DOT cert. as their bases are covered.

[RussMurco]

Originally Posted by Sieg

Thanks I did not know that. It still appears that Schroth uses an upgraded buckle, correct? It also explains the DOT and non-DOT cert. as their bases are covered.

I had the Schroths with the inertia-reel on my last car and found them to be very comfortable when just cruising and with the Recaro "Sport" seats they fit very well. What makes them "DOT legal" was the OEM-style buckle (and going through the certfication process). They'll be on my new Firebird as well!

[CarlC]

Something else to consider is that the systems you are considering have the potential to cause you to submarine under the lap belt during a crash. The shoulder harnessses can pull the lap belt up when under tension.

A good retractable 3-point like the Morris Classic Concept is the best bet since it mimics the OE-style pass-through buckle that creates tension in the lap belt during a crash. When going beyond that, to a 5 or 6-point setup, a submarine belt is needed and installed per the manufacturers specifications.

Yeah, I know, it's a pain. I just finished reworking mine since the sub belt was not correct. Think Schroth 6-point mounted in the Formula arrangement. I'll post up info in the Honor Flight thread soon.

[Sieg]

Originally Posted by CarlC

Something else to consider is that the systems you are considering have the potential to cause you to submarine under the lap belt during a crash. The shoulder harnessses can pull the lap belt up when under tension.

A good retractable 3-point like the Morris Classic Concept is the best bet since it mimics the OE-style pass-through buckle that creates tension in the lap belt during a crash. When going beyond that, to a 5 or 6-point setup, a submarine belt is needed and installed per the manufacturers specifications.

Yeah, I know, it's a pain. I just finished reworking mine since the sub belt was not correct. Think Schroth 6-point mounted in the Formula arrangement. I'll post up info in the Honor Flight thread soon.

Carl - Thanks for your input.

These are the "casual" belts I was considering: https://www.seatbeltplanet.com/seatb...n-retractable/

I made these mounts for the shoulder belt to bolt in to:


Is going with the non-retracting style a mistake? My thought was I could snug them up when desired and reaching inward or to the glove box should still be an option.

Regarding submarining, the Schroth ASM system made sense though I have no first hand experience or desire to test.

ASM stands for Anti-SubMarining. It's an extra flap of material sewn into the inboard shoulder belt that prevents you from sliding underneath the lap belt. In a 4 point harness made by some other company, the two shoulder straps restrain your upper body equally. They keep your chest from moving forward. However, this also pulls up on the lap belt and allows your accellerating pelvis to slide under the lap belt and cause serious damage to your stomach and intestines. With ASM, one of the shoulder belts will elongate at a different rate which will force your pelvis down into the seat cushion. Upon rebound, you will be placed back in an upright position with the belt correctly placed over your body.

[Sieg]

Resurrection.......

I've decided to install 3 point retractable belts up front vs harnesses until a roll bar is installed. I'm leaning towards this simple design from Seatbelt Planet:



https://www.seatbeltplanet.com/seatb...cts/25/view/57

Morris Classic Concept is the other consideration but I don't like the retractor position that leaves two belt straps and the retractor in the small opening behind the seat which I tend to use frequently. Also the visible shoulder mount extension in the quarter window isn't as cleanest a visually.

I'm speculating where to mount the retractor unit. I'd like it inconspicuous but do not want to compromise mount strength and function. Here's what I thinking:



The retractor hides in the corner and allows plenty hip clearance when I'm sitting in the rear seat, though the rear seat seldom gets use in this car.

I believe I could use a strap similar to the photo below to mount the retractor to the floor/rocker area, reinforcing the mounting point if necessary.



I'd appreciate your advice, concerns, and suggestions. :thumbsup

[intocarss]

Why Not Something Like This

[parsonsj]

Originally Posted by intocarss

Why Not Something Like This... followed by two images of death traps masquerading as belt systems

Sorry to be so harsh, but those two images of belt "systems" will get someone badly hurt or worse. If you haven't already, read this:

http://www.schrothracing.com/sdocs/2...structions.pdf

[RussMurco]

Originally Posted by Sieg

Is going with the non-retracting style a mistake? My thought was I could snug them up when desired and reaching inward or to the glove box should still be an option.

Regarding submarining, the Schroth ASM system made sense though I have no first hand experience or desire to test.

I'm sorry for missing this reply so long ago. I used the Schroth retracting harness just for ease of use and the ability to lock it in place when on a race course. It was in my 1989 Camaro and to reach most anything is a stretch in 3rd Gen cars so being able to reach forward and have the belt slack and retract was a definite plus. For the shoulder mounts I had a bar made that mimicked the roof line with plates welded on the ends that anchored to the OEM retractor mounts (at the top, forward edge of the b-pillars) with the bolts for the harness about 8" inboard from the mounts. They were comfortable enough to use in daily driving and a pretty slick set-up that didn't interfere with seat reclining or repositioning for different drivers. I have a photo somewhere, I'll see if I can dig it up...

[Ketzer]

Originally Posted by CarlC

Something else to consider is that the systems you are considering have the potential to cause you to submarine under the lap belt during a crash. The shoulder harnessses can pull the lap belt up when under tension.

I just put a set of the Schroth Rally 4s in my Nova. Strictly a street car and I wanted something a little better than factory lap belts. I definitely noticed once installed and snugged up, they do have a tendency to pull the lap belt up just as you described.

Jeff-