1969 Torino

[FETorino]

Ron

It is enlightening to see the full discussion of KPI/SAI & caster and it's relationship to camber laid out in an easy to digest discussion.

I'm tempted to cut and paste your roll center discussion on here also but maybe I should leave that to you.

Reading this reminds me of why I reached out to you. A statement made by Carroll Smith in Tune to Win. c.1978. He was speaking of purpose built race chassis. More narrowly focused than the quality pices of engineering available to the PT market.

"What you can buy is a starting point. In a really competitive class of racing it is unlikely to be capable of winning races out of the box. Development is up to you. You will do it by tuning"

Even with a Camaro there are many variables introduced by the owner that a suspension designer cannot account for. And every design brought to mass market is a compromise that will work for the whole market.

What most of us have from the vendors is a good or great starting point. But if you really want it to work, to the nth degree, you have to invest some time to understand what you really have and how to tune it.

With nothing more than a proper install, most, if not all, of these systems would produce a more than competent street car with good manners and ride. But then some people just have to really beat on their stuff.

Instead of race class rules there exists another set of limitations dictated by style and some minimal rules such as tire compounds.

I really enjoy your willingness to post some of the thought process of how to squeeze more blood out of the Turnip or in this case the Torino.

I have plenty left to do on this build and plan on continuing to post all of tweaks that I hope in the end will result in a very competent big boned girl.

[MX145]

Originally Posted by FETorino

Ron

It is enlightening to see the full discussion of KPI/SAI & caster and it's relationship to camber laid out in an easy to digest discussion.

I'm tempted to cut and paste your roll center discussion on here also but maybe I should leave that to you.

Thanks for getting this started Rob!
Ron, I greatly appraciate the information. Roll center please!

[Ron Sutton]

Originally Posted by FETorino

Ron

It is enlightening to see the full discussion of KPI/SAI & caster and it's relationship to camber laid out in an easy to digest discussion.

I'm tempted to cut and paste your roll center discussion on here also but maybe I should leave that to you.

Reading this reminds me of why I reached out to you. A statement made by Carroll Smith in Tune to Win. c.1978. He was speaking of purpose built race chassis. More narrowly focused than the quality pices of engineering available to the PT market.

"What you can buy is a starting point. In a really competitive class of racing it is unlikely to be capable of winning races out of the box. Development is up to you. You will do it by tuning"

Even with a Camaro there are many variables introduced by the owner that a suspension designer cannot account for. And every design brought to mass market is a compromise that will work for the whole market.

What most of us have from the vendors is a good or great starting point. But if you really want it to work, to the nth degree, you have to invest some time to understand what you really have and how to tune it.

With nothing more than a proper install, most, if not all, of these systems would produce a more than competent street car with good manners and ride. But then some people just have to really beat on their stuff.

Instead of race class rules there exists another set of limitations dictated by style and some minimal rules such as tire compounds.

I really enjoy your willingness to post some of the thought process of how to squeeze more blood out of the Turnip or in this case the Torino.

I have plenty left to do on this build and plan on continuing to post all of tweaks that I hope in the end will result in a very competent big boned girl.

Hi Rob,

Thanks for the kind words.

Your points are all spot on. If you want to optimize performance, you need to tune & test. I have always found the people that do that most, are the ones to beat.

P.S. Love Carroll Smith's books. I read them in 1980 & it set me on the path to design, build & tune race cars the way I do.

.

[Ron Sutton]

Guys,

I'm getting conflicting information on the C6 spindle KPI angle. So take that into account when reading #1234 & #1235.

If the KPI #'s I have been given are incorrect, I will correct the KPI # & the equation in these posts and let everyone know.

.

[Ron Sutton]

Originally Posted by FETorino

Ron

It is enlightening to see the full discussion of KPI/SAI & caster and it's relationship to camber laid out in an easy to digest discussion.

I'm tempted to cut and paste your roll center discussion on here also but maybe I should leave that to you.

Rob that's a good idea.

I'll add in the roll center information after we have fully discussed this topic first.

[Flash68]

Ron,

Since you've entered Rob's world I think some people might actually be scared of this big boned girl.

[Ron Sutton]

Originally Posted by Flash68

Ron,

Since you've entered Rob's world I think some people might actually be scared of this big boned girl.

Oh ... I think he was "committed" to making it a mean track car regardless. Maybe I can help him get it there quicker.

.

[intocarss]

Originally Posted by Flash68

Ron,

Since you've entered Rob's world I think some people might actually be scared of this big boned girl.

Fords do need all the help they can get

Originally Posted by Ron Sutton

Oh ... I think he was "committed" to making it a mean track car regardless. Maybe I can help him get it there quicker.

.

Again...Fords do need all the help they can get AND CLASS IS IN SESSION WITH Mr RON

HI ROB!!!!!!!

[Ron Sutton]

Originally Posted by intocarss

Fords do need all the help they can get

Again...Fords do need all the help they can get AND CLASS IS IN SESSION WITH Mr RON

HI ROB!!!!!!!

You're funny.

I really enjoy & relate to your signature line ...
"And people who don't know the game ask me why we race. I always reply that it has nothing to do with the racing, what we do is a people thing. The cars are just what we use to measure skills from one day to the next".


It reminds me of when Neil Bonnet was reflecting on his career after he came back from a bad crash & said, "I used to think I was racing against all these people ... until I got perspective & realized I was racing WITH all these people. It's the relationships I value most."

That struck a cord for me after I broke my back in a high speed Kart wreck in 1991 at Sears Point & has been one of my guiding principles since. I want to win ... and I'll work as hard as necessary until I do ... but I value enjoyable relationships more. When I look back on all my racing exploits, it's the great people & the good times I remember & enjoy most.

.

[intocarss]

Originally Posted by Ron Sutton

You're funny.

I really enjoy & relate to your signature line ...
"And people who don't know the game ask me why we race. I always reply that it has nothing to do with the racing, what we do is a people thing. The cars are just what we use to measure skills from one day to the next".


It reminds me of when Neil Bonnet was reflecting on his career after he came back from a bad crash & said, "I used to think I was racing against all these people ... until I got perspective & realized I was racing WITH all these people. It's the relationships I value most."

That struck a cord for me after I broke my back in a high speed Kart wreck in 1991 at Sears Point & has been one of my guiding principles since. I want to win ... and I'll work as hard as necessary until I do ... but I value enjoyable relationships more. When I look back on all my racing exploits, it's the great people & the good times I remember & enjoy most.

.

100% agree'd!! There is nothing like the racing family/car community (yes Sieg motorcycles too). When I'm inside those race track gates... the rest of the world doesn't exist.. It's in your blood or it's NOT Neil was one of my favorites, And sorry you broke your back.