1969 Torino

[Sieg]

Originally Posted by intocarss

And look who decided to show up WHAT, Tucker & Rev let you off your leash??

I've been busy uploading and editing a couple hundred photos I shot at an event last night............talking about photography in this thread is definitely waaay off-topic.

Originally Posted by FETorino

I've looked at this picture several times and I still don't see any wheels.

Ron in So Cal is the wheel guy. Maybe he can see them.

I'll post a vintage wheel pic from last night to get this thread back on topic.............

[intocarss]

Originally Posted by Sieg

I've been busy uploading and editing a couple hundred photos I shot at an event last night............talking about photography in this thread is definitely waaay off-topic.

So what you're saying is,, no love for Tuc or Rev and you still can't tune a carb worth a sh*t!! Yup yup

ANOTHER GREAT PIC THOUGH... NOW GET OVER TO THE PIC THREAD AND POST EM UP!! MAYBE EVEN BRING BACK THAT NORWOOD CREATURE TOO

Originally Posted by Ron Sutton

You guys are "special."

Very special.

Why Dave & Jer changed to cat & chicken avatars


...

AND SO ARE YOU RON

DON'T REALLY KNOW WHY WE DID. DAVE'S NOW AN ANGRY PUSS W/ TEETH AND I'M A CHICKLET W/ BIG GUNS

[FETorino]

Originally Posted by intocarss

So what you're saying is,, no love for Tuc or Rev and you still can't tune a carb worth a sh*t!! Yup yup

ANOTHER GREAT PIC THOUGH... NOW GET OVER TO THE PIC THREAD AND POST EM UP!! MAYBE EVEN BRING BACK THAT NORWOOD CREATURE TOO

AND SO ARE YOU RON

DON'T REALLY KNOW WHY WE DID. DAVE'S NOW AN ANGRY PUSS W/ TEETH AND I'M A CHICKLET W/ BIG GUNS

JerDog give Sieg some credit at least he's with us in the 1940's slo touring world. Maybe by the time Ron (in SoCAl) figures that laptop out Sieg will have a handle on the 4150 metering blocks.

DG has always been an angry puss with bright white teeth. That's why he looks good in Mauve.

I'm not touching the chicklet with guns comment. I know better.

[fleetus macmullitz]

Originally Posted by FETorino

Originally Posted by Ron Sutton
You guys are "special."

Very special.


Before I post the info on tuning with roll centers ... does anyone want to further discuss:

a. Tuning to balance a car with bigger rear tires

This one could be a general thread item since so many cars on this forum run as wide as possible in the rear. In fact many have an even greater split than on my car

b. Effects of different track widths

In a previous post on scrub and spindles you focused on maximizing track width. At some point on a really tight course such as some of the peanut autoxs maybe too much track is a bad thing? What about that? Is there an optimal range based on a ratio of track vs wheelbase and I imagine this changes with the cars intended use. Specific to my problem I am somewhat limited on track and over indulging in wheelbase so what unique issues does that cause for my build?

c. Tire characteristics on different rim widths I think Matt is pretty clear that he needs a low rim width to allow for super low air pressure when he goes rock crawling

d. The true definition of "Jiffy Pop" wheels
That has now been trademarked and it's use in any sticky threads is subject to fines and or JerDog

e. High Travel/Low Roll Suspensions

Once Gae's mood swing subsides and he gains an understanding of the new thread post and PM features he should contact you and that could be the title of the new sticky

f. Heather Rene, wheels for my car, wheels on my pit carts
We really just need more pictures to fully understand the HR concept.

g. Any parts of steering geometry: KPI, Caster, Caster Gain, Camber, Camber gain, Ackerman, toe, etc.
Since I believe I have a low amount of scrub in seeking a KPI/Castor split to gain grip on those tiny 285s I have up front is it more advantageous to simply gain castor by changing my UCA or would a spindle with a lower KPI angle be a better route. I realize the smaller angle of the spindle would create more scrub but since I have a high inside offset I would still be in what you consider the "low" range.

h. Scrub radius
All scrubbed up

i .Why Dave & Jer changed to cat & chicken avatars
That is the least of their problems or our problems with them

j. What happens to the handling when changing tires to or from slicks
Until I get some real specifics on my car and can post some questions followed by real world track results from the changes I'm good on this

k. The difference between being "involved" or "committed"

I'm involved in building a car.
Gae should be committed.
JerDog is involved in some trash talk.
Dave is committed to change.
GW is involved with INTORS.
I am committed to Formula43
Ron in So Cal is committed to wheels.
Ron in So Cal is committed to wheels.
Ron in So Cal is committed to wheels.

99.9999999999% on the forum are involved with a Camaro.
I am committed to a Torino.

I choose the path of the pig since I am committed to whooping some involved chickens.

...
in seeking how to balance my car's handling then a discussion on roll centers is in order.

Some tech/lotta humor...nice work Rob.

[Ron Sutton]

Originally Posted by FETorino

In a previous post on scrub and spindles you focused on maximizing track width. At some point on a really tight course such as some of the peanut autoxs maybe too much track is a bad thing?

What about that? Is there an optimal range based on a ratio of track vs wheelbase and I imagine this changes with the cars intended use. Specific to my problem I am somewhat limited on track and over indulging in wheelbase so what unique issues does that cause for my build?

Good question. Since we're only talking PT cars here, and not designing unique cars from scratch, we can keep the discussion to track widths in the 55-65" range. Wider provides stability, roll resistance & makes it easier to work all four tires more evenly. But width can add aero drag, depending on the package (aka car shape). There is no optimum Track to WB ratio. If there was a ratio, it would only give one more thing for car guys to debate.

For road courses, having the track wider helps in a big way. At cornering speeds of 60-100 mph these PT cars want to roll too much. Of course we select springs & sway bars to help reduce this roll, but widening the track width achieves the same goal as lowering the CG ... it reduces the leverage the CG has that produces roll angle in the first place.

Lowering the CG or widening the track width reduces roll angle at the source ... where springs, swaybars & roll centers are used to deal with the excessive roll angle after the fact. When the track width is wider, a specific "optimum" roll angle can be achieved with softer springs & smaller sway bars, which is a plus.

Wider track widths make the car WAY more drivable ... in a wide variety of lines ... providing the driver more confidence & options ... when a car is driven to its limits in high speed corners. A narrow track width is the opposite, making the car more knife edgy, often limiting the driver to a single narrow groove the car will run well in and does instills the opposite of confidence ... concern and/or fear ... in the driver.

For tight AutoX tracks, the primary drawback to wide track widths can be literally fitting through the cones. When I was at the Pleasanton GG AutoX in the spring, the chicane was literally 70" wide if you drew a straight line through it. Rob's red truck has a 71-72" overall width. Where everyone else ... talent permitting ... could thread the chicane, Rob had to turn left, right & left. Serious disadvantage there. Where on bigger AutoX tracks, his wider TW is an advantage.

The other issue ... "could" be ... getting the car to roll enough to help it turn well. This would only be an issue if the car is on a traditional low travel suspension set-up that needs the car to roll ... and the car couldn't achieve enough roll with their spring, sway bar & roll center package. Obviously, this could be remedied with softer springs. smaller sway bars or lower roll centers.

[carbuff]

In a similar vein to the TW / WB ratio question, at what point would having a wider front TW compared to the rear TW start to decrease handling performance? Or stated a different way, is there such thing as too much front TW compared to the rear?

I don't think that was answered already, but my brain is a little distracted by things other than FErds and suspension in this thread.

[Ron Sutton]

Originally Posted by FETorino

f. Heather Rene, wheels for my car, wheels on my pit carts
We really just need more pictures to fully understand the HR concept.

I understand. I am a visual learner as well. Especially for things as complex as women.

Here is a lil' sumthin' to tide everyone over for now.


.

[Ron in SoCal]

Originally Posted by Ron Sutton

I understand. I am a visual learner as well. Especially for things as complex as women.

Here is a lil' sumthin' to tide everyone over for now.


.

Nothing better than a hot woman welding. Her roll center is.....umm, nevermind.

[FETorino]

Originally Posted by Sieg

Here's a concept that may be hard for some to comprehend........I've been driving ol' Norwood everyday since Wednesday of last week.

Back to Ferd's and KPI...........

The off idle stumble and mid transition lean spot don't bother you?

I wish those were my current problems.

Originally Posted by Ron in SoCal

Nothing better than a hot woman welding. Her roll center is.....umm, nevermind.

Just about perfect?

I'd guess that because I have a lot of experience with a little older model chassis with nearly identical specs, just a longer wheelbase.

[Sieg]

Originally Posted by FETorino

The off idle stumble and mid transition lean spot don't bother you?

I wish those were my current problems.

Schmooth baby, schmooth.......

I am concerned about my front end geometry.......because of actual tire wear as opposed to hypothetical.