Warning do not buy Stainless Works big block headers

[camcojb]

Originally Posted by chr2002ca

Not necessarily true. I have NOS big block frame stands for my 69 that shift the engine to the passenger side properly and I still had to dimple my Hedmans and would've had to dimple a set of Hookers to fit near the steering box. If the #5 header tube does not loop over the #7 tube, then the #5 tube and possibly #7 tube are probably going to hit a power steering gear box no matter how correct the frame stands are. I've seen people place shims under the drivers side frame stands to create extra clearance. Some power steering boxes stick out more than others also. I had to rework my #7 tube when I changed to a different ps box.

Additionally, he said the headers are hitting his idler arm also, so shifting the engine more to the passenger side would make this worse. I saw a thread where a guy had the same problem with his Lemons and had to send that side back to get reworked slightly.

It's a difficult fit for any header manufacture. It's a crappy situation for the original poster because of how pricey the stainless headers are and how pricey it is to return them to have them corrected.

I understand that not all headers fit correctly, but if he has different frame pads than what the manufacturer used in their header design he has little chance of them fitting without modding them. My Hookers fit perfectly (although tight) on my 69 Camaro with the correct GM big block frame pads.

[chr2002ca]

Originally Posted by camcojb

My Hookers fit perfectly (although tight) on my 69 Camaro with the correct GM big block frame pads.

Congratulations. You're one of the few! I'm jealous. Hooker makes 3 or 4 different models(design, primary tube sizes) each with completely different fitments and issues. I tried Hooker 2205's earlier this year and they fit very poorly and the craftsmanship was just horrible and I sent them back to Summit and decided to just re-work my Hedmans. I read from others that other models of Hookers(that have the #5 tube loop over the #7 tube) had no issues with fitment at the steering box, but had severe issues with it hitting their road racing oil pan or that they hung too low or hit somewhere else, so I didn't even want to try those. I've also heard that ordering the same model of headers twice from Hooker could get you 2 different fitments depending on how the guy building them was feeling that day.

It's simply a role of the dice. Even the priciest headers sometimes don't fit. I went to a physically smaller power steering box and it actually fit worse due to how certain areas stick out more than others. It's difficult/impossible for header manufacturers to account for something like that.

If I was to recommend any header, I'd have to go with Lemons also. They seem to have the least amount of fitment issues and most of time fit perfectly out of the box.

[8hg383]

I have got the big block mounts on they are Chris Alston big block engine and frame mounts i have measured them and comparied them with standard big block mounts and there are the same height.
I checked all that before even contacting SW as i wanted to be 100% sure i was doing the right thing befor blamming someone else.
I think they are to suit steering rack vehicle not box as there are that far away from getting them to fit.
The thing is they are hard against the box and idler arm so moving the motor left or right will not work nor will moving the motor up as the number one pipe is hard against the steering box body from the top of the box to the bottom.
All advice is appreciated.

[8hg383]

Some pics.

[clill]

Is that a GM subframe or Alston ?

[camcojb]

Originally Posted by 8hg383

I have got the big block mounts on they are Chris Alston big block engine and frame mounts i have measured them and comparied them with standard big block mounts and there are the same height.
I checked all that before even contacting SW as i wanted to be 100% sure i was doing the right thing befor blamming someone else.
I think they are to suit steering rack vehicle not box as there are that far away from getting them to fit.
The thing is they are hard against the box and idler arm so moving the motor left or right will not work nor will moving the motor up as the number one pipe is hard against the steering box body from the top of the box to the bottom.
All advice is appreciated.

What cylinder heads do you have? And by big block mounts, you have Chassisworks frame pads and they measured the same as GM big block frame pads? I'm speaking of the frame pads themselves, not the motor mounts.

[chr2002ca]

I believe I see at least part of the problem in the photos(besides the fact that it's not a stock subframe which adds a big variable). That's not a stock power steering box, and it's the same model I just switched to from a larger/heavier model/series(my previous one was from AGR). The one he has I believe is the '600 series' model that's smaller and lighter than other quick-ratio PS steering boxes, but also unfortunately makes that common fitment issue against the #5 tube even worse. Like I mentioned earlier, it's specific to headers designed like his(and mine) where all tubes just go immediately downward instead of the #5 tube looping over the #7 tube. That particular series of power steering box just sticks out like that in that exact area against the #5 tube even worse than other quick-ratio boxes. The other quick-ratio boxes can also have a clearance problem right there, but the 600 series is even a little worse. It's a situation that's not fair to header manufacturers and sucks for both parties really. Now, the passenger side header hitting on the idler arm is another issue in itself that I won't comment on, and if other tubes on the drivers side are hitting, there's not much you can do for clearancing that doesn't involve modification to the header.

For that #5 tube issue, if you change that particular bolt on the steering box that is hitting the header to a button head bolt, and you do a little light grinding(flap disk) in that area of the steering box cover to add some additional clearance, you should be okay. You could wrap a little titanium header/heat wrap around that area of that tube if you're worried about heat transfer(I did just to be safe). The engine will rotate upwards in that area when you hit the gas, so clearance will be okay at WOT. I have the exact same situation with my headers, but mine's even worse than his. I had to do some "clearancing" and also had to dimple my #5 tube slightly. My #7 tube was really bad and I had to cut a section of it out completely and add a curve to it. All because of the "smaller"(in all the wrong places) steering box. His #7 tube looks like a much better design than mine.

[camcojb]

Originally Posted by chr2002ca

I believe I see at least part of the problem in the photos(besides the fact that it's not a stock subframe which adds a big variable). That's not a stock power steering box, and it's the same model I just switched to from a larger/heavier model/series(my previous one was from AGR). The one he has I believe is the '600 series' model that's smaller and lighter than other quick-ratio PS steering boxes, but also unfortunately makes that common fitment issue against the #5 tube even worse. Like I mentioned earlier, it's specific to headers designed like his(and mine) where all tubes just go immediately downward instead of the #5 tube looping over the #7 tube. That particular series of power steering box just sticks out like that in that exact area against the #5 tube even worse than other quick-ratio boxes. The other quick-ratio boxes can also have a clearance problem right there, but the 600 series is even a little worse. It's a situation that's not fair to header manufacturers and sucks for both parties really. Now, the passenger side header hitting on the idler arm is another issue in itself that I won't comment on, and if other tubes on the drivers side are hitting, there's not much you can do for clearancing that doesn't involve modification to the header.

For that #5 tube issue, if you change that particular bolt on the steering box that is hitting the header to a button head bolt, and you do a little light grinding(flap disk) in that area of the steering box cover to add some additional clearance, you should be okay. You could wrap a little titanium header/heat wrap around that area of that tube if you're worried about heat transfer(I did just to be safe). The engine will rotate upwards in that area when you hit the gas, so clearance will be okay at WOT. I have the exact same situation with my headers, but mine's even worse than his. I had to do some "clearancing" and also had to dimple my #5 tube slightly. My #7 tube was really bad and I had to cut a section of it out completely and add a curve to it. All because of the "smaller"(in all the wrong places) steering box. His #7 tube looks like a much better design than mine.

I thought it was a stock subframe with a DSE Speed 3 kit, hard to tell. The steering box being changed is an issue as you said as it has less clearance in that tube area than the stock one. If he has aftermarket heads (or some GM Performance heads), many of those have raised exhaust ports, another potential issue, especially with the steering box, maybe the idler arm depending on how the tubes are run.

[chr2002ca]

Originally Posted by camcojb

I thought it was a stock subframe with a DSE Speed 3 kit, hard to tell. The steering box being changed is an issue as you said as it has less clearance in that tube area than the stock one. If he has aftermarket heads (or some GM Performance heads), many of those have raised exhaust ports, another potential issue, especially with the idler arm and steering box.

Yes, you could be right about the frame. I can't tell either. I assumed Chris Alston subframe when he mention the mounts and I saw the pic.

[8hg383]

Thanks for all the replies its good to hear from people with similar issues.
Its a stock subframe with a DSE front suspension kit and steering box.
The heads are Dart which run a 300th raised port
All this information was told when ordering the headers. The number1 tube hits hard against the box from the top all the way down the body and also hits the top control arm bolt.
I did change the steering box top bolts to mushroom head but made little difference.Not sure weather you can see in the pic but the header isnt even flush on the head yet it stiil needs to be rotated up which i cant do as its against the box and no gasket on yet either.On the other side number 1 tube is hard against idler arm rubber seal.