oh speak for yourself....I still can't form proper sentences, haven't slept good and developed a nervous twitch every time I hear that stupid "Frozen song" and don't even get me started on Allen. He shaved his head bald, adopted a bleach white, over weight cat that he carries everywhere...
oh speak for yourself....I still can't form proper sentences, haven't slept good and developed a nervous twitch every time I hear that stupid "Frozen song" and don't even get me started on Allen. He shaved his head bald, adopted a bleach white, over weight cat that he carries everywhere and keeps mumbling your name and something about destroying the earth with a fricken laser.
good times....HAAA, "spits on the floor
THREAD/
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If it ain't buckin, chirpin & makin all kinds of bad noises, then I ain't happy
Accelerating is optional...........stopping is mandatory. Your car WILL stop one way or another.
I included the before and after pit cruise for those that haven't attended a track day so they can see the entire in car process for a session.
Nice smooth driving, looking good . What kind of top speed were you running on the straights? It looked like you went into 5th gear on the long straight.
I can't believe the Corvette made the pass on on you while you were passing another car. He should have waited.... hopefully you saw him coming.
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"If you wait, all that happens is you get older"
Mario Andretti
69 Camaro-Nutter Racing Engines/427CI LS2 sleeved/LS7 CNC ported heads/Custom cam/T&D 1.8 rockers/Manley crank/Manley H-beam rods/Weisco pistons/NRC Pro Series dry sump/Kooks/NA,92 octane,11.5:1- 672HP @ 6,900RPM, 566TQ @ 5,500RPM Build Thread- http://ls1tech.com/forums/generation...ine-build.html
Sorry for not posting sooner. I was rockin' on some projects.
I have lots to cover from the Thunderhill weekend ...
1st ... Greg thanks for hiring me to come out. You said it would be fun & man was it. You hang with a great group of people. Your cooking & hospitality was much appreciated.
2nd ... Sieg & Dave "Cheeseball" Gordon ... it was good to see you both again & hang out. Fun times.
3rd ... Mike & Mike ... it was good to meet you in person. It's funny how acquaintances are born online but friendships forged when you're hanging out.
4th ... Charley ... man ... you shoulda warned me about Greg. LOL
5th ... Gaetano ... good to meet you in person. I wish they would have let you run so we could dial in those trick rear shocks. But I'm glad you made the trip anyway to hang out.
If I missed anyone, I apologize.
Now onto some info I should share ...
A. Greg Weld didn't hire me to get faster. That was never our focus. Greg wanted to get a better handle on the Hoosier R6 tires ... optimum pressures for hot & cold tracks ... taking temp readings ... understanding what the temps mean, etc. He had “ono moment” at Laguna Seca and wanted to prevent that in the future.
Greg told me a dozen times before & during the track days, "I do this for fun." So my focus was on making it more fun for him on track. (Hard to make it more fun in the pits. Greg & the gang already have that covered. But I did get a few funnies in.)
What I mean by fun on track is ...
• Having a track car that is predictable to drive, consistent and comfortable at 8/10, 9/10 or 10/10.
• Having a track car that doesn't handle funny nor doing anything evil or unpredictable.
• And lastly ... and this is key ... having a track car that you have confidence in that's not constantly on the edge.
On Saturday:
After Session #1: I checked the tires’ hot pressures (to know growth rate) took inner, middle & outer temps ( to understand what the tire was doing) and checked the durometer on each tire. Greg mentioned the car was rolling over on the right rear on left hand corners (which Thunderhill has most of for you guys that haven’t been there.) Greg told me the car was doing this the last time he had it at the track too … but not before that. Driving a car that handles this way can be a little unsettling on slower tracks. On faster tracks it can pucker you up … if you know what I mean.
It would be easy to think the cause was mechanical, but understanding what the tires are telling us is can prevent us from going on a wild goose chase. The primary reason the car was rolling more over on the right rear tire … was the right front tire was not gripping “as well”. It was harder than the other 3 tires. A quick refresher: Grip (traction) causes the car to have body roll or roll angle. No grip … no roll angle. So the RR tire was gripping fine & the RF not so much. This led to more roll angle in the rear & less in the front.
If we had a single used, good tire we could have put on the RF, that would have fixed it. We didn’t, but Greg had 4 new tires mounted on wheels, so he swapped them on. I learned a little about the run pressures from session #1 & adjusted the “go out” pressure a bit for session #2.
We sat down (Sieg, Greg & I) and I shared driving tips to keep the tires “Happy” … for increased grip on all 4 tires … and outlined what I think of as timing the driver actions of braking, turning, throttle, etc.
After Session #2: I checked the tires’ hot pressures , temps & durometer plus brake rotor temps. The tire pressure growth & temps looked better. The durometer showed the new tires were all within 1 point & basically the same as the 3 good tires Greg took off. The brake temps showed the car’s brake bias was off.
Greg was excited his “car was back” and the handling restored to normal. He said the rear tires were hoppy on corner entry under hard braking, so I adjusted the brake proportioning valve … and made a small pressure change. I better clarify that … Greg sets his tire pressures … I just review the numbers and share my suggestions. Greg was laughing his butt off about the car needing .5 of a pound more in the in the front tires. LOL Good times.
After Session #3: I checked the tires’ hot pressures , temps & durometer plus brake rotor temps. The tire pressure growth & temps looked close, but not perfect yet. The brake rotor temps told me the bias was much better but not optimum.
Greg said the hop in the rear brakes was gone, handling was great and he had confidence in driving her. The brake bias adjuster was out of adjustment, so we understood that was all we could get until we made some mechanical changes. I called for another .5 tire pressure change … this time for the rear tires … and Greg was dying laughing.
After Session #4: Of course, as always, I checked the tires’ hot pressures , temps & durometer plus brake rotor temps. Tires were perfect … which means they were providing the optimum grip they were capable of. Brake bias was the same … Ok.
We called it day … a good day … and most of us proceeded to have several adult beverages (not Greg) and an awesome dinner the Shelby club provided at the track.
IIRC Greg’s times for the day were:
Session #1: 2:23 best
Session #2: 2:16 best
Session #3: 2:15 best
Session #4: 2:13 best
But we never once focused on going faster. We never discussed going faster or driving harder. My focus was learning & optimizing the tires … and finding and fixing issues that were there. My goal was to make the car more fun to drive.
To clarify, I didn’t cut 10 seconds off Greg’s times Saturday. I’ll bet Greg would have got the Mustang running around 2:18’s with no changes. maybe even faster. Only Greg can know. By correcting a few things on the car, it made it easier to drive faster. I think the majority of Saturday’s gains were from car improvements and some from Driving improvement.
We did not do much on the car relatively speaking. We didn’t touch shock valving, springs, heights, sway bars, track bars, roll centers, front end geometry, etc, etc. That wasn’t Greg’s goal. He just wanted the car to be predictable & more fun to drive.
On Sunday:
I called for “go out” pressures to make the cold tires come up to speed quicker. Sieg, Greg & I sat down & I shared ways to program the mind to increase critical information coming into it. I reminded them of a key thing to do before each session. We made no changes to the car on Sunday. All gains on Sunday were driver.
Session #1: 2:13
Session #2: 2.08
Summary: We achieved Greg's goals. He learned his tire info & knows how to optimize them everytime, got his car handling & braking better & learned a few driver tricks. The 10 second quicker lap times were just icing on the cake.
Someone mentioned 12 seconds, but I think working together, Greg & I cut about 10 seconds off his lap times … 2:18 to 2:08 … over the whole weekend. Some from car improvement & some from driver coaching.
For reference, I was timing several cars every session (at the track I live with a small 4-car stop watch). I have an old habit of always timing cars … because it teaches me stuff. I time laps for many reasons. In this case, I needed to know if the track was changing significantly to affect car performance and if so … how much? So I timed 3 veterans every session. The mean C6 Vette (fastest car there I “think”) ran 2:00’s almost every lap. The “good” Cup car ran 2:02’s occasionally 2:03’s all weekend. Another fast Mustang ran 2:09’s & 2:10’s every session. So the track didn’t change much.
Again, Greg & I never focused on going faster. We never discussed going faster or driving harder. I just helped Greg & Sieg see, hear & feel things more clearly in the cockpit. The 5 seconds Greg shaved off his lap times on Sunday was all driver. Greg had confidence in his car and increased his track awareness which allows you to get faster … comfortably.
Greg … Man … thanks for having me out. It was super fun. I’m glad you had fun … and you’re happy with the result.
__________________ Ron Sutton Race Technology
Last edited by Ron Sutton; 05-08-2014 at 10:53 AM.
Reason: spelling
Ron thanx again for all you do for this forum and us. Your wisdom and experience is great fun to learn from. I enjoyed meeting you and spending some time with you this weekend. It was one of my favorite weekends of my life, granted it was my first track outing and a memorable one, one i will always have with me. Track days will come and go, and so will friends, but memories we will have forever.
Ron -- Great compilation of the weekend! Thank goodness you have a mind like a steel trap. I can't remember anything except the fun stuff.
I will say that having Ron Sutton help with the two cars was the best money I've ever spent on a car -- and was also far cheaper than all the parts that I'd have bought to shave that time off --- and the car wouldn't have been better with more parts thrown at it.
I've said this - in a "nice way" <for me> many times -- and it always gets discounted as it's coming from the old fat guy.... but investing in drivers schools -- seat time -- and professional services such as what Ron offers (not your jackass buddy that THINKS he knows something) --- will do way more for you and your car than all the parts you think you need 'cause if all the parts aren't functioning the way they should be - ya got nothing.
If you're serious about your stuff... invest in some help like what Ron offers. It's the best money you've ever spent.
RON: What about a 1/4 click on the left front and minus 1/2 click at the rear...
Guess we'll work on all that the next session 'cause I ain't done with you yet! :>)
So, in a nutshell, I can barely remember driving my car on Saturday. I managed to meet Sieg and Ron, but somehow missed Greg. My timing sucked for pretty much everything, as it seemed like if I was not on the track, I was literally running to the "classroom," as I was in school. The "classroom" sucked, but it was necessary for a few key pointers; mostly, it sucked, and it sucked up my ability to truly enjoy the day, the other cars, or the social elements of the environment. Oh well...
My main problem was sleep deprivation; I did my 120-or-so mile drive down on Saturday morning on about four hours of sleep (no problem--I drove a truck for a living for many years). I had a really cool instructor in the car (Joe Praxel?)--the guy in the classroom not so much. The in-car instructor took me out for one of his red group sessions in his California Special and managed to do a disco-spin going over that little hill; that was some good added value.
My car held up well for three sessions; I thought my basic street tires would be disinspiring, but they were surprisingly not. The suspension and steering felt great; my only confidence issue was my brakes, which still worked fine. I'm just not used to track-like braking requirements (no, no drums are on my car). Still, I actually remember very little of the driving, although the Blue Milk guys took some great feelthy peekchurs that I'll be paying money for, when I get another minute...
I finally managed to ride solo in my third session, and things went okay. That said, it's funny how 340 horsepower quickly feels like a shopping cart on a track. After the session, I heard some frying noises that turned out to be a bunch of water on the top of my motor, so I cut my losses and hit the road. I was so freaking sleepy that all I wanted to do was hit the Starbucks in Willows and go home to bed.
I got black flagged on my first lap, thanks to my cool instructor encouraging me to pass in a turn. Who was I to disagree?
I'm pretty sure that the only guy who passed me in my flaming-fast sessions was Glassman--the guy in the blue Camaro, I think...
Brian Hobaugh SCCA National Tour June 2014
First Hemi 'Cuda Convertible Ever Built
Short clips: Goodguys Pleasanton autocross and pit videos
. What kind of top speed were you running on the straights? It looked like you went into 5th gear on the long straight.
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