69 Camaro Project - Dead Pool

[GregWeld]

Answer the question.... did the zip ties help with the notchy steering issue...



Did you find the car pushing or oversteering? And were you able to dial it differently?


Matt changes or rebuilds his motors after every autoX - will you get more than one weekend out of yours?

[Ron in SoCal]

Originally Posted by GregWeld

Answer the question.... did the zip ties help with the notchy steering issue...

Sort of. Notchy did not go away. It made the steering more PS assisted, but it still would fluctuate which is very frustrating, and on a big track not safe.

The way I'd describe it is you'd go into a turn, it was heavy than light or vice-versa. Then the car would be slow to turn, all the while moving forward/more tuning notes below, then it would react and sometimes SNAP and then I was left over correcting. It was very frustrating, but it's fresh and needs major sorting.

Originally Posted by GregWeld

Did you find the car pushing or oversteering? And were you able to dial it differently?

Plowed like a MF'r. Snap over steer above and springs were too light in the rear so it squatted with little throttle input and lifted front wheel weight bias. Early in the day it just skating all over the place. We made three shock adjustments before lunch (maybe went the wrong way once) and disconnected the rear bar. One adjustment after which made the car steer better; by that I mean we dialed out traction in the rear so the front could do its job. Then the problem was it plowed to the point that the tire was rolling over on itself and really not steering. There was no trail braking on this course or with this set up.

Honestly, we could armchair quarterback the day for hours but really the car (and then my driving) needs sorting. Most new builds do.

Originally Posted by GregWeld

Matt changes or rebuilds his motors after every autoX - will you get more than one weekend out of yours?

Well, at least the motor survived. That was the strongest thing going yesterday.

Originally Posted by cosmo meant it

Ron,

Not exactly the kill story we've been led to believe would be forthcoming, but all in all it was a good first test 'for us'.





...the Rontourage got a little too 'involved'.

Quick story: there were lots of SCCA people there yesterday. One gal was named Rita. Rita has a C5, maroon paint and factory chrome wheels. She looks like your great aunt that's 15 years past retirement. She asked me to adjust her tire pressure between runs. I check her pressure and they're spot on for where she wanted them to be and she goes and busts out a 33.9. Next she has me take out 5lbs fr and 4 lbs rr. She pulls off a 33.4. Turns out she's been running SCCA for 40 years! (I could be wrong on the years, someone mentioned it)

I remember when BBalls was fresh and Mary drove it @ RTTC. It had a major push and they disconnected the rear bar, only to have mediocre results for the day.

Matt's been AutoX'ing his car for almost five years and gets almost as much seat time as anyone (almost). You look at all the top dogs and they're what, 10, 20 or 40 (Rita) years into it. That's a lot of seat and car set up time.

[GregWeld]

#1 question.

Did you have fun? Who gives a sh!t about the rest of it. You learn - you try - sometimes you cry... at the end of the day if you can't remember what you did except that it was a blast... PERFECTION.


I've been saying for a very long time - but nobody listens to me..... Have one of the top drivers run your car thru 3 times.... That time is what you strive for if you do absolutely NOTHING to the car.... just fix the driver. When you get near their time -- now you start to tweak the car with some pro input.

Obviously this is a big picture look/statement. But if the car doesn't change and a good driver rips off 5 or 6 seconds faster than you're running... then there is 5 or 6 seconds in your driving that needs "work" if you do nothing to the car. The car might be a total piece of crap -- doesn't matter -- driving IT properly for the way it's set up is worth 5 or 6 seconds.

Of course getting it somewhere driving decently will also help you learn to be better.... so I'm not discounting the car set up. It's just interesting "bar" to set with a good driver at the wheel to see where you are at versus what's possible doing nothing at all. And they might get out of the car and tell you to do X. Just remember that X is for their driving style and not the guy parked two rows over that is just as fast but likes his car set up differently. Mike likes loose - Brian loves tight... I'd like to be able to drive anywhere within 10 seconds of either one. LOL

[GregWeld]

The power steering issue I'd be looking at -- belt slippage.... or air entrapment...

[OBeer-WAN-Kenobi]

Originally Posted by GregWeld

The power steering issue I'd be looking at -- belt slippage.... or air entrapment...

mmmmmm..... "Entrapment".....

[fleet]

That sounds like a full day Ron.

Nice you have a job you can go back to and get some rest.

[Matt@BOS]

Originally Posted by GregWeld

The power steering issue I'd be looking at -- belt slippage.... or air entrapment...

I'm wondering if there is some air that just doesn't want to get out. Or, its possible that the pump isn't properly matched to the rack. The DSE racks like to see 1400psi pressures at (I believe) around 3.2 gallons per minute. Having the flow rating, but not the pressure might be responsible for the irregularity.

All in all, I think Ron should be pretty proud. Other than the steering issue, there weren't any other mechanical issues. It wasn't fun or easy to drive. It had understeer on corner entry, mid corner, on exit and in a straight line seriously, if you weren't conscious of unwinding the wheel, the car would plow through the straights with the wheel turned until a dab of brakes or a little too much throttle made it snap. Ron worked on driving around the cars weaknesses and did really well out there, especially for his first autocross!

[Flash68]

Originally Posted by Matt.A

It wasn't fun or easy to drive. It had understeer on corner entry, mid corner, on exit and in a straight line seriously, if you weren't conscious of unwinding the wheel, the car would plow through the straights with the wheel turned until a dab of brakes or a little too much throttle made it snap.

Sounds like Ron built the perfect pro touring car based on proven recipes.

[FETorino]

Originally Posted by Flash68

Sounds like Ron built the perfect pro touring car based on proven recipes.

Yep 335/285 stagger hard at work. Form over function.

Originally Posted by Matt.A

All in all, I think Ron should be pretty proud. Other than the steering issue, there weren't any other mechanical issues. It wasn't fun or easy to drive. It had understeer on corner entry, mid corner, on exit and in a straight line seriously, if you weren't conscious of unwinding the wheel, the car would plow through the straights with the wheel turned until a dab of brakes or a little too much throttle made it snap. Ron worked on driving around the cars weaknesses and did really well out there, especially for his first autocross!

Sounds like Ron did just fine.

Fix the steering issue and get some seat time in the thing. Then new rear inner hoops and a 315 tire will fix you right up.

[GregWeld]

Matt -- You may be on to something there with the flow and pressure. I've seen plenty of guys running GM pumps with Ford racks and then complain that they're steering is too light... well DOH! A simple orifice change and it's bada bing bada boom!


Generally just raising the front off the ground - open the cap on the reservoir - and running the rack lock to lock a few times is adequate bleeding... but with extra lines -- and coolers... you'd have to look for a "high" loop where maybe the air is trapped IDK.


I have power steering on the Muttstang -- and Charley doesn't on his... he's always worn out at the end of the day and mentions "me" having PS and him not. I think there's larger issues at work but WTF we're friends and I just accept his whining for what it is. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA