Which aftermarket Subframe

[HBRod]

Thanks Curtis and Greg, been thinking about what you have said about the differences and making the plan. I've been working on a spreadsheet to list out the things I want and the things I need in the car. Keeps getting longer and longer as I am sure all of you know. But am trying to be as thorough as possible. After reading Stielow's book (where he also recommends doing this) I am starting to get a better handle on project. So far I've only read about 45 project builds (some much longer than others) and I know my basic direction. Since I was a kid I truly admired Mark Donohue and the Penske Camaros. That is what initially pushed me into SCCA Solo racing when I was 20. Hence my interest in Pro-Touring since it's the closest I can get to driving something similar to the Trans Am cars of my youth. I want the car to look nice but not a show car. Bling at times is nice, but instead of spending money on chrome I want safety, handling, speed. Some bling is okay if it's not to the detriment of those goals. I am looking at the subframe, frame connectors, and rear suspension as the building blocks for everything else. Goal one is solid bones, which means a solid body (zero rust if possible) and suspension. I can always upgrade the engine more easily than the rest of the car. Same with transmission. So trying to set priorities on the list is both challenging and fun.

[Matt@BOS]

For front steer rack and pinion subframes I would give preference to DSE and AME, although, I've never had a Scott Mock frame, or one from the Roadster shop either, but they both look nice. I don't think you can go wrong with any of the above. It is only when you get down to really nuanced details associated with handling characteristics in a racing environment that you might favor one over the other based on what your preferences for geometry are.

Fit and finish with DSE and AME is great, and they pretty much work without having to modify anything to fit, or correct certain geometry issues that would be difficult to align, or cause wheels be off centered and rub in the wheel well, which I've seen on a few aftermarket frames here and there.

[Z06vette]

I've read this thread with interest as I have been struggling with the idea of replacing my subframe during an upcoming motor/trans swap. I like the feedback as I also prefer front steer w/ rack. (I'm currently running Wayne Due). Maybe we could get a group purchase going... I'm looking forward to following your upcoming build. I enjoy the build almost as much as running the autocross.
Scott

[TheJDMan]

I spent a lot of time researching parts when I built my 68 and ultimately decided on the DSE subframe. I have around 6000 street miles on it and I would buy the DSE again in a heartbeat. Like you one of my requirements was a front steer power rack. I also liked the hydro-formed frame rails.

[Stuart Adams]

Awesome car dude. Performance, safety, structural inegrity and ride quality are where DSE shines.

[HBRod]

Originally Posted by TheJDMan

I spent a lot of time researching parts when I built my 68 and ultimately decided on the DSE subframe. I have around 6000 street miles on it and I would buy the DSE again in a heartbeat. Like you one of my requirements was a front steer power rack. I also liked the hydro-formed frame rails.

That is one nice '68. I had a '68 when I was just 19 with a 327 and loved that car. So I definitely can relate to how nice your ride looks. I'm glad that it's been a positive experience with DSE. I've seen some mentions of an issue with turn radius, what's been your experience? What size tires are you running?

[HBRod]

I've been wondering why chassisworks only has a single front cross-member when nearly all other designs have two (thought size varies). Dipped - has your experience been that you haven't noticed any lack of torsional rigidity with your setup. What engine are you running with it? Tire sizes?
Thanks
Rod

[HMA]

I would not just focus solely on the front subframe only. These suspensions perform better and are easier to tune if you have matching front and rear components. It is easier for the suspension manufactures to assist in precise tuning when you are not mixing and matching company A with company B. That being said I would also pay close attention to what subs have the hidden costs such a having to switch from a type 1 to a type 2 steering pump for the rack, transmission mounts, ect... Look at alignment specs, which allow more adjustability with front end geometry such as the static camber, caster, and everything else Ron Sutton discusses in detail in the above threads.

Evan

[HBRod]

I have been looking at rear suspensions also, but decided to find out reactions to the front first. Yes, the matching of front and rear will make it easier for the source (DSE, AME, Chassisworks, etc) to help tune the whole vehicle based on feedback from the customer. I feel that looking at the suspension tuning in the way of the alignment specs is something I'm going to start on Monday making phone calls to all the ones that are on my short list. I'm fortunate that all the vendors that I've narrowed it down to have a rear suspension package that dumps leaf springs. Great in their day for cost savings, but modern times has shown us a better way.

Thanks for the advice of all of you,
Rod

[Chassisworks]

Originally Posted by HBRod

I've been wondering why chassisworks only has a single front cross-member when nearly all other designs have two (thought size varies).

Hi Rod,
We only use one front crossmember because that's all it needs. Our frame is super strong. The crossmember is made from mandrel-bent .120 wall thickness 4x2 steel. Our motor mount standoffs are also different from what you typically see and the engine essentially forms a stressed member in this type of mounting. The only car that comes to my mind that had two crossmembers stock was the '67-'69 because GM couldn't figure out how to build it cheap enough AND strong enough to have just one. Apparently they figured it out when they built the '57 Chevy but forgot after designing the Chevelle. Oh, but remembered by the time the '70 came out.

Most of the stress in the frame during a handling exercise is front to back under braking. Our rails are the strongest on the market partially due to their interlocking plate construction.

Originally Posted by HBRod

I'm going to start on Monday making phone calls to all the ones that are on my short list.

I know that we were absolutely hammered on the phones today. I'm sure most of us were. Middle to later in the week is usually best for in-depth conversations.

I hope that's helpful information.