Investing 102

[GregWeld]

This is the part that just kills me on this company funds... they obscure... and add fees... and all manor of stuff that just makes investing harder and harder for the uninformed.

I agree that matching (free) money is a good thing --- but if you kick in 6% and they kick in 3% -- but then hit you with 1% annual management fees etc... AND you don't get growth and or income... then you can be putting money into a black hole. Sometimes the "match" just isn't worth it when you do the math.

People forget that they can open up IRA's and ROTH IRA's etc outside of their work plan... and then control and or understand what their hard earned money is going in to. Frankly -- I'd rather MAKE 30% than I would get a 3% match. But then again - that is putting a burden on the investor and the average guy/gal just isn't up to the task.

[dhutton]

Originally Posted by GregWeld

People forget that they can open up IRA's and ROTH IRA's etc outside of their work plan... and then control and or understand what their hard earned money is going in to. Frankly -- I'd rather MAKE 30% than I would get a 3% match. But then again - that is putting a burden on the investor and the average guy/gal just isn't up to the task.

There are income limits beyond which you cannot contribute. For those people 401k plans are the only option as far as I understand it. Married couples quite often exceed those limits.

Don

[CornHusker4Life]

Originally Posted by dhutton

There are income limits beyond which you cannot contribute. For those people 401k plans are the only option as far as I understand it. Married couples quite often exceed those limits.

Don

Yep 181,000 adjusted gross income for married filing jointly for Roth IRAs.

[GregWeld]

Originally Posted by dhutton

There are income limits beyond which you cannot contribute. For those people 401k plans are the only option as far as I understand it. Married couples quite often exceed those limits.

Don

All true and I agree Don -- but that wasn't my point. The point is that people should at the very least - look into alternatives.

Personally --- I've NEVER been allowed to open these types of accounts due to their limits... I still looked into them.

[dhutton]

Originally Posted by GregWeld

All true and I agree Don -- but that wasn't my point. The point is that people should at the very least - look into alternatives.

Personally --- I've NEVER been allowed to open these types of accounts due to their limits... I still looked into them.

I fully agree. I research this stuff extensively in large part due to what I've learned from you in this thread. Thanks!

Don

[captainofiron]

Originally Posted by GregWeld

This is the part that just kills me on this company funds... they obscure... and add fees... and all manor of stuff that just makes investing harder and harder for the uninformed.

I agree that matching (free) money is a good thing --- but if you kick in 6% and they kick in 3% -- but then hit you with 1% annual management fees etc... AND you don't get growth and or income... then you can be putting money into a black hole. Sometimes the "match" just isn't worth it when you do the math.

People forget that they can open up IRA's and ROTH IRA's etc outside of their work plan... and then control and or understand what their hard earned money is going in to. Frankly -- I'd rather MAKE 30% than I would get a 3% match. But then again - that is putting a burden on the investor and the average guy/gal just isn't up to the task.

From what I understood in their 401k presentation is our company takes care of all the fees while I am with the company and if I leave then I am responsible for those fees from the point of my termination on.

My company matches 100% up to 4% and 50% above 4% to 6%

so its not bad, and I see what you mean about trying to make it seem like magic, by the way, the guy that does this is that fast talking used car salesman guy who wanted me to roll over my old 401k to my new companies 401k or an IRA with them

Anyways, I picked the funds that had the best returns over the past few years, had the top 10 companies that I knew, and the lowest fees.

So hopefully in the end I will come out with much more than matching percentage that the company gives

[GregWeld]

You do the best you can do with what you have to work with. Just looking into your holdings is more than most folks do.

Originally Posted by captainofiron

From what I understood in their 401k presentation is our company takes care of all the fees while I am with the company and if I leave then I am responsible for those fees from the point of my termination on.

My company matches 100% up to 4% and 50% above 4% to 6%

so its not bad, and I see what you mean about trying to make it seem like magic, by the way, the guy that does this is that fast talking used car salesman guy who wanted me to roll over my old 401k to my new companies 401k or an IRA with them

Anyways, I picked the funds that had the best returns over the past few years, had the top 10 companies that I knew, and the lowest fees.

So hopefully in the end I will come out with much more than matching percentage that the company gives

[GregWeld]

Because it's CURRENT and CONTINUING... let's look at an EXAMPLE of a stock vs the stock price.

GoPro (GPRO) came out with an IPO with much hype (by TV talking heads) and fanfare! It has THE NAME - and all cameras that are of the type will forever be called GoPro's regardless of their actual brand.

WE - as sports people - know the name and brand and quality. So accordingly this is all of great interest for us.

Here's where we can learn from the IPO market -- using GPRO solely as an example.

When the market is "hot" and there's too much money chasing too little stock GROWTH... people get all manic (ma ny ick) chasing STOCKS. The latest greatest shiniest new toy is the hot money. When there's more buyers than sellers - the stock price climbs. Many times it climbs for no other reason than it's climbing!! This is where the old adage comes in - if you were a fortunate buyer of the issue - early! Pigs get fat - hogs get slaughtered.

So here's what happens -- some NEWER hot IPO comes out and the money flows out of the hot stock from last week into the new hot stock this week... OR people that bought at the TOP -- begin to see losses and then start to bail. What happens when there's more sellers than there are buyers??? Prices FALL.

LET'S SEPARATE your beliefs that a product or company is the next killer deal -- and begin to understand THE MARKET. The two things are completely independent of each other!

The tricky part for EVERYONE is to be able to INVEST in good companies with a good FUTURE long term -- versus getting caught up in the "hot investment". Some of these issues (IPO's) take flight and never look back. Some of them take flight and then once they leave the nest - find themselves falling to the ground. Some of them just quietly go away. The problem for US as investors is that we just don't know which one is going to be the real deal.

Here's what I've learned to do. I wait. I wait until the dust settles from the big coming out party. I investigate the underlying business.... I don't listen to the talking heads -- in fact -- the more they talk -- the farther I run. That's the first sign that you're in the hype mode! So I wait for cooler heads to come out and talk -- and when they also begin to dissect the DOWNSIDE of the stock but then say they're still buyers.... that's when I begin to take notice. But if the talking heads including guests are all saying "well... it could grow into the stock price" but right now it's a little "rich". PASS! If you still like the story and the company -- you have time to get some shares at far better prices!

I recently bought ALIBABA (BABA). I actually now have a gain in it. But the difference is this. Every talking head has said that the growth going forward should be (SHOULD BE) just huge... and that while it "seems expensive" it's not. Now - if you take GoPro - the talk is dying or dead... it's not even mentioned anymore -- and all have said "it will have to grow into the price". HUGE difference!

BTW -- I bought a whopping 500 shares of BABA. I only bought this little teeny tiny bit and will buy no more. Compare that amount next to my normal holdings of 20,000 to 40,000 shares.

Now -- I hesitate to post stuff like this -- because what I never want on here is for people to do what I'm doing. That's NEVER the point of these posts. What I'm trying to do is to use examples for what they are. Examples. Ways to think. What to watch out for. GoPro might grow into it's share price - BABA might be a huge flop in the US.... IT'S GAMBLING. LEARN HOW TO GAMBLE AND WHAT THE BET IS before you just get caught up in the hype. Open your eyes and ears and learn what to look for... This is a MARKET.. and markets can pick you apart if you're the rookie on a pro playing field.

[AMSOILGUY]

Proud to say I just sealed the envelope and put the stamp on my son's custodial account application for Schwab. He has 1600 bucks to start with. Its been in a CD up until this point. Now we wait. Hes excited, I'm excited, sort of like the blind leading the blind here! I'll be rereading this thread again over the next week until the funds hit his account. Hes 11 so he is getting started 20 years before his old man did.

Thanks for the motivation!

[GregWeld]

Originally Posted by AMSOILGUY

Proud to say I just sealed the envelope and put the stamp on my son's custodial account application for Schwab. He has 1600 bucks to start with. Its been in a CD up until this point. Now we wait. Hes excited, I'm excited, sort of like the blind leading the blind here! I'll be rereading this thread again over the next week until the funds hit his account. Hes 11 so he is getting started 20 years before his old man did.

Thanks for the motivation!

Buy him $500 worth of three different stocks... Toss one in like FaceBook -- or Alibaba -- something like that. He's young and has to take a little risk on at his age.