Consensus on big bar/soft spring?

[alwaysracin]

WOW, quick with Ron's forum attack dogs! I did not post the question to start an argument. Everyone needs to calm down. It was a simple question to Ron.



I am new to this group and asking about Ron's specific autox background. Did I bring up a touchy subject? I would not got to a proctologist to get my teeth cleaned but without checking the background you might end up there. I am asking because like myself Ron might have been sent to other states to help set up suspension on autocross cars. I have never seen him at local SCCA or AAS events locally, so I figured he might go out of state. How else are you going to learn a new form of racing without testing?

Rodney,
I agree a national title is not everything but it does take the small pond out of the mix. It does prove you have an idea about setup or someone who helps you does. You are incorrect about being a national champion because no one else is in the class. You would be a national winner not champion and would not get the national champion jacket.

Why are you not using his set up tips? (never mind, It doesn't matter)

Greg,
I am trying to keep this nice. Name calling is childish. It was a simple question.

Lance,
Cup races are circle track and very different than auto crossing. They do not have any quick transitions.

WS6,
Smart Move.

You can ask any local fast autoxer and most likely they are more than willing to help you. We all like the challenge and competition.

other than hearing from Ron. I am not reposting on this topic. I wrote to help but it wasn't taken as such


Ron,
I am still waiting. You always seem to duck out when asked a real question.


Scott Fraser

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Originally Posted by alwaysracin

WOW, quick with Ron's forum attack dogs! I did not post the question to start an argument. Everyone needs to calm down. It was a simple question to Ron.



I am new to this group and asking about Ron's specific autox background. Did I bring up a touchy subject? I would not got to a proctologist to get my teeth cleaned but without checking the background you might end up there. I am asking because like myself Ron might have been sent to other states to help set up suspension on autocross cars. I have never seen him at local SCCA or AAS events locally, so I figured he might go out of state. How else are you going to learn a new form of racing without testing?

Rodney,
I agree a national title is not everything but it does take the small pond out of the mix. It does prove you have an idea about setup or someone who helps you does. You are incorrect about being a national champion because no one else is in the class. You would be a national winner not champion and would not get the national champion jacket.

Why are you not using his set up tips? (never mind, It doesn't matter)

Greg,
I am trying to keep this nice. Name calling is childish. It was a simple question.

Lance,
Cup races are circle track and very different than auto crossing. They do not have any quick transitions.

WS6,
Smart Move.

You can ask any local fast autoxer and most likely they are more than willing to help you. We all like the challenge and competition.

other than hearing from Ron. I am not reposting on this topic. I wrote to help but it wasn't taken as such


Ron,
I am still waiting. You always seem to duck out when asked a real question.


Scott Fraser

gonna leave this here. I'm sure he's busy doing something Scott. Ducking out? Rons attack dogs? We all show respect and respect each other. Someone has to remind the new guys that this is a community of friends and doesn't have to start with name calling, chest thumping and call outs. I for one don't have a g******* thing to prove to any one. Main goal in life is to provide for my family. Having fun with cars is a side effect.

[Rod P]

I am re-posting my answers because I believe they were lost in the scuttle

big bar/soft spring?


that choice is mostly decided from training and driving style..


for me...I run my 68 Camaro with 800 lb front springs and the DSE sway bar...my upper control arms pivot point has been moved from stock (modified Guldstrand) and that creates a jacking effect so essentially my car is in camber moment at all times...the lower control arm has the shock mount moved closer to the ball joint than standard arms....and the triple adjust front shocks i have run a digressive piston....on the rear I run a 325 spring on a triangulated 4 link and the triple adjust rear shocks i have run a digressive piston, I use the Helwig Protour rear bar....the weight of my car is 3150 with full interior, radio, heater, full tank and Cage the engine is a 6.0 LS.....

my set up is big bar/medium spring
and even with the poundage of springs I run you can see how my car fully compresses coming off the rumble strips at 90mph at the Vegas Track





hope that helps

[bergers59]

Thank Rod, it does help, even all of the banter in some way has helped. Considering suspension setups are subjective, my next question was going to be if there a was middle ground with bar/spring realtionship. However your car shows that there is a middle ground, with an 800lb spring and big bar in front.

[SSLance]

3550# fat car with 40 year old suspension technology underneath it...except for a modern soft spring big bar setup.





Car runs a 600# spring up front with a 1.5" diameter 0.375" wall front sway bar.

List of cars it beat in last Sunday's autocross in Raw time:

2000 Pontiac Trans AM WS6
2011 Hyundai Genesis Coupe
2013 Scion FR-S
1997 Ford Mustang Cobra
1965 Factory Fi Cobra
2014 Ford Fiesta ST
2013 Scion FR-S
2005 Subaru Impreza WRX STi
1989 Honda Civic Si
1972 Int'l Harvester Scout II
1992 Chevrolet Corvette
1994 Chevrolet Cavalier
2003 Mazda Miata
2006 Mitsubishi Evolution IX MR
2010 Porsche 911 4S Cab
2014 Nissan 370Z
1998 BMW 328is
1999 Mazda Miata
2011 Subaru WRX
2013 Fiat Abarth
2008 Volkswagen R32
2014 Nissan 370Z
2013 Fiat Abarth
95 Margay Lynx
1991 Mazda miata
2015 Subaru WRX STi
2013 Subaru BRZ
1991 Mazda MX5 Miata
2001 Porsche 911 Turbo
11 Camero
1997 Mazda Miata
1991 Ford Mustang
2008 Volkswagen R32
2013 Chevrolet Camaro
2005 Volkswagen Jetta GLI
2013 Scion FR-S
2015 Subaru WRX
2006 Mitsubishi Lancer Evo
2004 Porsche 911
2013 Ford Focus ST
1997 Mazda Miata
1991 Mazda Miata
2015 Ford Mustang GT
1984 Porsche 944
Mazda Mazdaspeed3
2002 Mazda Miata
2008 Mini Cooper
1999 Ford Mustang Cobra
2002 Honda S2000
2007 Mini Couper
2009 Mazda Mazdaspeed 3
2014 Ford Focus ST
1994 Toyota Tercel
Ford Focus
1967 Pontiac Firebird
2013 Ford Mustang GT
MX5
2013 Fiat Abarth 500c
2015 Scion FRS
2003 Mazda Miata
86 Nissan 300zx
86 Nissan 300 zx
1972 Int'l Harvester Scout II
1990 Mazda Miata
2006 Ford Focus
14 Honda Civic SI
2012 Scion tC
2006 Pontiac gto
1987 Pontiac Fiero GT
1992 Mazda Miata
2008 Mazda Mazda 3
BMW 328i
2000 Ford Mustang GT
1979 Chevrolet Camaro
95 Miata
09 Honda Fit
00 Mustang
1987 Pontiac Fiero GT

Same car finished 16th out of 64 of the best of the best CAM cars and drivers at CAM East a few weeks ago, with less tire, less brake and less horsepower than a lot of the cars behind it.

This particular car would not finish like it has shown it can many times over...without a finely tuned SSBB setup.

Other cars and setups may be different but to say autocross is a one trick pony that only a stiff spring car can run well at is just incorrect.

[dontlifttoshift]

Sigh.....let me fix that for you.

Originally Posted by SSLance

List of cars that I drove better than they did in last Sunday's autocross in Raw time:

I beat a guy in a ZR1 last weekend, I don't think my car is better than his.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Originally Posted by dontlifttoshift

Sigh.....let me fix that for you.



I beat a guy in a ZR1 last weekend, I don't think my car is better than his.

yep, every dog has his day.

[Rod P]

Originally Posted by Vince@MSperfab

yep, every dog has his day.

this dog is still waiting

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Originally Posted by SSLance

1972 Int'l Harvester Scout II


Same car finished 16th out of 64 of the best of the best CAM cars and drivers at CAM East a few weeks ago, with less tire, less brake and less horsepower than a lot of the cars behind it.

This particular car would not finish like it has shown it can many times over...without a finely tuned SSBB setup.

Other cars and setups may be different but to say autocross is a one trick pony that only a stiff spring car can run well at is just incorrect.

ok right there gives you midwest PIMP status in my book. HAaaaa haaaaa f-n-a

[Jr]

Originally Posted by Rod P

I am re-posting my answers because I believe they were lost in the scuttle

big bar/soft spring?


that choice is mostly decided from training and driving style..


for me...I run my 68 Camaro with 800 lb front springs and the DSE sway bar...my upper control arms pivot point has been moved from stock (modified Guldstrand) and that creates a jacking effect so essentially my car is in camber moment at all times...the lower control arm has the shock mount moved closer to the ball joint than standard arms....and the triple adjust front shocks i have run a digressive piston....on the rear I run a 325 spring on a triangulated 4 link and the triple adjust rear shocks i have run a digressive piston, I use the Helwig Protour rear bar....the weight of my car is 3150 with full interior, radio, heater, full tank and Cage the engine is a 6.0 LS.....

my set up is big bar/medium spring
and even with the poundage of springs I run you can see how my car fully compresses coming off the rumble strips at 90mph at the Vegas Track

[/IMG]


hope that helps

How big is the bar? 1"or 1 1/4"?