Retired SCCA car vs ProTouring for Track Day

[Flash68]

Originally Posted by michics

So I'm thinking about getting a retired SCCA Camaro or Mustang race car from the American Sedan or CMC series to be a dedicated track car. Probably a late 80's to mid 90's model. I have a 70 Camaro that was kind of built by previous owner to do track days and I have done a couple with it. But as usual it doesn't have the cooling ducts, oil coolers, and safety equipment to run some of the tracks. I live 3 hours away from Road America and that is one fast track. I guess my main thing is the safety side of it ( cage, fuel cell, etc. ) that you get with a race car.

So have any of you made this jump are you satisfied that you did it ? Any experiences you care to share will be welcomed. Did you find it to be more cost effective relative to your PT car ?

Thanks

I'm the Dave mentioned a few posts up. After throwing tons of money into a mostly running 68 Camaro (still in progress) I decided to wise up and buy something exactly as you allude to.

I bought a well put together (but untested) LS powered Fox Mustang. Great foundation and the majority of the safety stuff is already there.

Ran it twice so far (Sonoma and Laguna Seca) and it is a hoot. Just incredible value for barely into 5 figures. Heck, that gets you some wheels, tires and brakes in the pro touring world.

I am still trying to figure out how to finish my Camaro -- it's headed toward full race car but I am keeping it street legal and registered to be able to cruise around occasionally.

I don't disagree with Todd on that point (track car for track days, PT car for street driving) but I think there is something to be said for be able to drive a wicked track car on the street once in awhile. To each his own there.

[clill]

Taking your nice Pro-Touring car to the track is neat but it is also really hard on the car. Cheaper to buy a 20K race car that costs less than the paint and body work on many Pro-Touring cars. You need the space to house two cars though. You also feel better about beating the crap out of a race car versus the car you just built to perfection.

[michics]

Hi Dave,

I read about your experience in the Race Car section. Looks like a nice ride for the track. I saw some of the guys giving you the raspberries about alot of shifting, so I watched your in car video what struck me was how fast it was rpm'ing. Does it have low rear gear ratio?

So since you've made this transition any pointers on what to watch out for in the search for a track car ?

Originally Posted by Flash68

I'm the Dave mentioned a few posts up. After throwing tons of money into a mostly running 68 Camaro (still in progress) I decided to wise up and buy something exactly as you allude to.

I bought a well put together (but untested) LS powered Fox Mustang. Great foundation and the majority of the safety stuff is already there.

Ran it twice so far (Sonoma and Laguna Seca) and it is a hoot. Just incredible value for barely into 5 figures. Heck, that gets you some wheels, tires and brakes in the pro touring world.

I am still trying to figure out how to finish my Camaro -- it's headed toward full race car but I am keeping it street legal and registered to be able to cruise around occasionally.

I don't disagree with Todd on that point (track car for track days, PT car for street driving) but I think there is something to be said for be able to drive a wicked track car on the street once in awhile. To each his own there.

[FETorino]

What to look for in a track car, that’s a loaded question.

#1 build quality. A poorly built race car isn’t safe. If you see one item that is sloppy then be prepared to find more and more and more.

A current log book and tech inspection from SCCA or NASA means at least somebody inspected the car and hopefully it actually meets the sanctioning bodys safety specs. Not all inspectors are the same so this isn’t a guarentee but it’s better than buying a PT car that has no tech requirement.

Look at the cage and the quality of the welds. Start by looking to ensure the welds go around the full perimeter of where the tubes join. This is a requirement for cage safety and if not done a sign of other short cuts.

Belts, fuel cells and some seats have freshness dating. If those parts are not within the cert timeframe the rest of the car is probably worn out.

Typically it is better to pay a little more for a professionally built car unless you plan on taking on another build project.

What car? There is no absolute answer but here is my opinion.

You gotta have a V8. Who wants anything without V8 torque and sound for a track car? A Miata is probably the most cost effective track car and ine of the best training tools but it’s a Miata so pass. But if you want a lot of track time with less garage time then the less exotic the motor the better. Big hp is great but big hp wears out parts way faster. All parts. Remember the purchase price is the cheapest part of this equation. You have to maintain the car and keep it running. Good oiling and proper cooling are a must so if these systems don’t seem like overkill then pass.

I’m not familiar with SCCA classes but in NASA a nice American V8 TT car or an American Iron or American Iron Extreme car would fit the bill. The Factory Five Cobra class cars look like a blast.

Just bolting on expensive parts doesn’t guarentee the car works. If the car you buy has some pedigree (as in it has documented race wins or low lap times) at least you have a chance that the setup under the car works. A car that handles predicably is priority one. It may not be the absolute “best” handling car but frankly most people don’t have enough track time or skill to really comment on a cars performance. A predictable car gives you the opportunity to learn where the car is failing vs you being the problem and over time you can become fast even if the car is slow.

[Flash68]

Originally Posted by michics

Hi Dave,

I read about your experience in the Race Car section. Looks like a nice ride for the track. I saw some of the guys giving you the raspberries about alot of shifting, so I watched your in car video what struck me was how fast it was rpm'ing. Does it have low rear gear ratio?

So since you've made this transition any pointers on what to watch out for in the search for a track car ?

Ha - I get the raspberries no matter what I do (deservedly so).

I was told it is a Richmond close ratio trans (5 speed) and no reason to not believe it. Without any actual verification, I can just say it works and gears 3-5 are pretty closely geared so it works pretty nice. I have decided to short shift the LS3 around 6k rpm for now so the gear changes do happen more often than with many other transmissions. I also do not know what rear end gear is in the car but I don't really care either. It's probably a 3.23 or 3.55 I reckon. I just get in and drive.

As far searching pointers.... I'd say buy the best, safest car you can find. I knew all the builders/installers of the systems of this car (cage, suspension, tuner, etc - all local, reputable names) as they were mostly all shops AT Sears Point, so that helped immensely.

There are a lot of what appears to be "deals" in the used race car world I think. Racing Junk (so aptly named) etc... I would be hesitant to buy sight unseen one of these.

This was intended to be a training car for me.... as my Camaro (when finished) will be a downright weapon of mass destruction. This just made too much sense for me and so far I am loving it.

You are on a good path - many PT guys have gravitated there or added a race car to their stable after figuring out what you are discussing here.

Good luck in your hunt. The hunt is very fun!

[michics]

Originally Posted by Flash68

Ha - I get the raspberries no matter what I do (deservedly so).

I was told it is a Richmond close ratio trans (5 speed) and no reason to not believe it. Without any actual verification, I can just say it works and gears 3-5 are pretty closely geared so it works pretty nice. I have decided to short shift the LS3 around 6k rpm for now so the gear changes do happen more often than with many other transmissions. I also do not know what rear end gear is in the car but I don't really care either. It's probably a 3.23 or 3.55 I reckon. I just get in and drive.

As far searching pointers.... I'd say buy the best, safest car you can find. I knew all the builders/installers of the systems of this car (cage, suspension, tuner, etc - all local, reputable names) as they were mostly all shops AT Sears Point, so that helped immensely.

There are a lot of what appears to be "deals" in the used race car world I think. Racing Junk (so aptly named) etc... I would be hesitant to buy sight unseen one of these.

This was intended to be a training car for me.... as my Camaro (when finished) will be a downright weapon of mass destruction. This just made too much sense for me and so far I am loving it.

You are on a good path - many PT guys have gravitated there or added a race car to their stable after figuring out what you are discussing here.

Good luck in your hunt. The hunt is very fun!

I not trying to insult you. Just offering a little knowledge on your r & p ratio.
You can figure this out by jacking the car put a mark on a tire and a mark on you driveshaft then rotate the tire one complete revolution while counting the revolutions of the driveshaft.

Thanks for your advice.

[DBasher]

Originally Posted by michics

I not trying to insult you. Just offering a little knowledge on your r & p ratio.
You can figure this out by jacking the car put a mark on a tire and a mark on you driveshaft then rotate the tire one complete revolution while counting the revolutions of the driveshaft.

Thanks for your advice.

I’ll add a bit to this to help Dave.

1) Purchase a jack. Don’t worry, the guy at the store will know what it is.
2) Block the front wheels
3) Place the jack under that thing that connects the two rear tires and raise the back of the car...after that follow the above instructions.

[michics]

Originally Posted by DBasher

I’ll add a bit to this to help Dave.

1) Purchase a jack. Don’t worry, the guy at the store will know what it is.
2) Block the front wheels
3) Place the jack under that thing that connects the two rear tires and raise the back of the car...after that follow the above instructions.

WOW !! You guys really put effort into keeping Dave headed in the right direction.