We have a name for people like you...... it begins with "ASK" and ends with "HOLE".......
LOL
Hey -- you're my competition! You don't expect us to spill our guts on every secret do you?? Oh! I think PICTURES work better in your case anyway you little crayon eater....
GW, So you are running the Stang against his Torino?
I had to get in on the fun, lol
Does he have a Torino?? Oh wait!! Yeah -- I remember now..... But I don't think that's a race car. I think it's a metallurgical study for corrosion and the speed at which iron oxide forms.
Ron - another question about the structure, this time the cage.
Based on pics of other builds it seems typically people use 1 piece front pillars that extend from either the main rear hoop or the roof hoop to the floor. In this build the front pillar is a short piece attaching the roof hoop and dash bar. I also notice the dash bar isn't bent but instead welded together. Without having any real knowledge of what works best I always assumed it was better to bend the steel rather than weld it together. This build seems to prove my assumptions wrong and in general this looks a bit easier than bending in tight spots. Is there any difference or benefit in strength when bending vs welding a joint?
Ron - another question about the structure, this time the cage.
Based on pics of other builds it seems typically people use 1 piece front pillars that extend from either the main rear hoop or the roof hoop to the floor. In this build the front pillar is a short piece attaching the roof hoop and dash bar. I also notice the dash bar isn't bent but instead welded together. Without having any real knowledge of what works best I always assumed it was better to bend the steel rather than weld it together.
I have your answer ------ I'm not crashing the car so it doesn't matter.
I believe that but I assume you may let Alex and/or Rob drive at some point.....
Its all about placement, force direction-continuation-pathways and proper use of nodes. A straight piece of tubing will resist a bending force more so than a bent piece of tubing,even if welded. Its safe to have a bent tube but that depends on force loading, support (nodes) and directions.
Ron - another question about the structure, this time the cage.
Based on pics of other builds it seems typically people use 1 piece front pillars that extend from either the main rear hoop or the roof hoop to the floor. In this build the front pillar is a short piece attaching the roof hoop and dash bar. I also notice the dash bar isn't bent but instead welded together. Without having any real knowledge of what works best I always assumed it was better to bend the steel rather than weld it together. This build seems to prove my assumptions wrong and in general this looks a bit easier than bending in tight spots. Is there any difference or benefit in strength when bending vs welding a joint?
What Vince said in a complicated way is correct.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vince@Meanstreets
Its all about placement, force direction-continuation-pathways and proper use of nodes. A straight piece of tubing will resist a bending force more so than a bent piece of tubing,even if welded. Its safe to have a bent tube but that depends on force loading, support (nodes) and directions.
I'll clarify a few things ...
A. We do not want to butt weld 2 pieces of tubing together with no support. That would not be as strong as a bend.
B. But if we bring multiple tubes together ... triangulated them ... & weld them, that is stronger than a bend.
Looking at the photo below, if the red tube simply bent into the the tube in blue, and the tube circled green butted into this bent tube ... it would not be as strong as joining all three with welding.
The strength difference is not monsterous, but in the 15%-25% range.
Some bonuses of doing it this way is we can offset the A-pillar tube (red) to better fit the car & keep the firewall bar (green) higher than we could with a bent tube.
And lastly, just as Vince was stating, a bent tube is not nearly as strong as a straight tube. For example, when we make watt's link tubes straight (normal) we can run the 7/8" OD tube with .065" to .095" wall thickness & never have any issue. With our GT Watt's link, the lower passenger side tube is stepped. Meaning it is bent back & then bent again to be parallel. (See HERE). Those stepped tubes need to be .156" to .220" wall ... or they'll bend ... right where we "pre-bent" them.
Same with roll cages. Where you have a bend ... needs to be braced ... or that is your weak link. See how we brace them in the 2nd photo below. (Purple Circles)
Make sense?
__________________ Ron Sutton Race Technology
The Following User Says Thank You to Ron Sutton For This Useful Post:
Car Year & Model: 70 Ford Mustang Fastback
Competing in: NASA TTU & Track Days
Front Clip/Suspension: GT Track-Warrior
Rear Clip/Suspension: GT Track-Warrior
Engine: Track-Warrior 3 LS7 700 HP
Trans: Sequential Shift T56 6-Speed
Brakes: StopTech 14” ST60/ST40
Owner: Greg Weld
Builder: Randy Chastain – One Off Customs
The roll cage structure is coming along nicely.
Decoupled 3-Link Mount for Top Links. Decel Link bolts into the brackets. Accel link bolts into a clamp on jack-screw adjuster for quick & easy tuning.
With Body on ... before welding.
Building the front engine bay cage with our adjustable height coil-over mounts
Yes, that orange cylinder is one of the four air jax to make the car quick & easy to change tires & work on.
Way higher and tighter then I thought it would be, can't imagine how many times the body has been on and off. Looks more refined then your usual glass race car, awesome work Ron.
Brian Hobaugh SCCA National Tour June 2014
First Hemi 'Cuda Convertible Ever Built
Short clips: Goodguys Pleasanton autocross and pit videos
Hybrid Mode
