Thank you Greg Weld ! Venting time.

[Blake Foster]

Originally Posted by Tom.A

It seems many big dollar high profile builds spend at least a year on a show circuit which allows time to iron out bugs but even those will require wrenching and have an ugly underbelly too. My two favorite car builders are DSE and Roadster Shop but in my opinion they can't build the reliability that the General can because they spend millions developing components. Old cars with new parts still means working on them.

WHY would anyone think that any builder ANY builder could build the reliability into even a million dollar car that GM FORD (the corvette has been in constant development since 1952!!!) or any mfg can? how could you take parts made by 200 different suppliers that have never been tested together for more the 2 minutes if your luck and expect all of them to work for for 100,000 miles with no issues. These are NOT factory cars they are 1 off cars built by guys who are supposed to perform Magic and make some power window motor work with some after market switch and a new window that doesn't fit in an aftermarket door with new repop window felt and rubbers that are too hard and too thick in a 40 year old car and expect it to work perfectly the first time you touch the switch and have that NEVER be an issue for the entire remainder of that cars life? really?

I feel Speedtech builds really good cars, well finished and with Great style, I feel we do it more reasonably that some in the same price range, i have been doing this since i was 13! We test the cars for a period, usually a couple hundred miles. ( i laugh at the customers who say Take it out and beat on it!! UMMM NO that is up to you) and then give it to the customer, because i have to charge all that testing time and all the fuel. It adds up. The customer want their car, they want to drive it.
I am sure you have seen the grey 69 Camaro we just finished? it was a mid $$$ build compared to a DS or RS car we put 400 miles on it, here is the funny part brand new T56 5 miles on it and it pushed out the rear seal. hummm oh well 2 hours later we had a new seal in it who knows. 5 more miles pushed out the new seal,WTF made some clamps to hold the seal in from aluminum. thinking maybe the housing was a little over size it was not leaking or anything, customer picks up car 50 miles later is shows up on a tow truck guess what, call Tremec give them the ser# "oh that one was a DUD and needs a new Tail shaft housing we will send you a new one. Cool who is paying the labor? tremec "NOT US" cool pull the exhaust drive shaft for the 3rd time, pull the trans wait 2 weeks for the part! the original housing did not get the vent or return passages machined in it so it was juut pumping the oil onto the back side of the seal. when we had the trans out we noticed the shifter was all loose. took that apart and the pivot pin bushing had walked out and was all chewed up. call Tremec send a pic "that does not look like our shifter (it was a pick of the pin ans pivot not the whole assembly) send another pic of the housing that says "TREMEC" on it does this look like yours? .........ok we will send you a replacement.... tick tock 2 weeks!! the car was on the hoist for a MONTH we had 12 hours labor in this.
Welcome to building cars, i find it funny how it is never our own parts we are fixing!!!
Whew rant over
i just want people to understand that some of the issues that come up on these cars truly are not the builders fault!! but they choose to either fix them AT THEIR EXPENSE!!!! BTW or not I suppose that is the difference.

I think that is the longest post I have ever written

[ironworks]

Originally Posted by Blake Foster

WHY would anyone think that any builder ANY builder could build the reliability into even a million dollar car that GM FORD (the corvette has been in constant development since 1952!!!) or any mfg can? how could you take parts made by 200 different suppliers that have never been tested together for more the 2 minutes if your luck and expect all of them to work for for 100,000 miles with no issues. These are NOT factory cars they are 1 off cars built by guys who are supposed to perform Magic and make some power window motor work with some after market switch and a new window that doesn't fit in an aftermarket door with new repop window felt and rubbers that are too hard and too thick in a 40 year old car and expect it to work perfectly the first time you touch the switch and have that NEVER be an issue for the entire remainder of that cars life? really?

I feel Speedtech builds really good cars, well finished and with Great style, I feel we do it more reasonably that some in the same price range, i have been doing this since i was 13! We test the cars for a period, usually a couple hundred miles. ( i laugh at the customers who say Take it out and beat on it!! UMMM NO that is up to you) and then give it to the customer, because i have to charge all that testing time and all the fuel. It adds up. The customer want their car, they want to drive it.
I am sure you have seen the grey 69 Camaro we just finished? it was a mid $$$ build compared to a DS or RS car we put 400 miles on it, here is the funny part brand new T56 5 miles on it and it pushed out the rear seal. hummm oh well 2 hours later we had a new seal in it who knows. 5 more miles pushed out the new seal,WTF made some clamps to hold the seal in from aluminum. thinking maybe the housing was a little over size it was not leaking or anything, customer picks up car 50 miles later is shows up on a tow truck guess what, call Tremec give them the ser# "oh that one was a DUD and needs a new Tail shaft housing we will send you a new one. Cool who is paying the labor? tremec "NOT US" cool pull the exhaust drive shaft for the 3rd time, pull the trans wait 2 weeks for the part! the original housing did not get the vent or return passages machined in it so it was juut pumping the oil onto the back side of the seal. when we had the trans out we noticed the shifter was all loose. took that apart and the pivot pin bushing had walked out and was all chewed up. call Tremec send a pic "that does not look like our shifter (it was a pick of the pin ans pivot not the whole assembly) send another pic of the housing that says "TREMEC" on it does this look like yours? .........ok we will send you a replacement.... tick tock 2 weeks!! the car was on the hoist for a MONTH we had 12 hours labor in this.
Welcome to building cars, i find it funny how it is never our own parts we are fixing!!!
Whew rant over
i just want people to understand that some of the issues that come up on these cars truly are not the builders fault!! but they choose to either fix them AT THEIR EXPENSE!!!! BTW or not I suppose that is the difference.

I think that is the longest post I have ever written

Or you mean like the Ron Francis black box relay panel that needs separate relays to operate properly. I still laugh at the owner of Ron Francis telling me I need to install relays to trigger his fancy relay panel that won a Super Duper SEMA award. Junk. Then why do I need your stupid relay box.

Or you mean the old ISIS system stuff? HAHAHA Its like using an original Nintendo 20 years later.

Or that hydraulic power assist brake booster thing. Not hydraboost I forget what the other was called.

Or that flush fit glass glass kit that just doesn't fit.

All those fancy products that everyone wants until its actually installed.


If you build any car that is cool now or trendy it has new parts that the builder and owner are the R&D test mule for said company whether you know it or not. I love it when I call about a malfunctioning part and the company leads you to believe your the only dude on the planet with one that is wrong and you tell em, " What are the odds that I have 3 of them from you that are junk and my buddy has 2 more?". My buddy said he talked you last week about his two junk units and told me to ask for you directly. ZING.



Later on we can get into the bad shops who should not be building entire cars.

[ironworks]

This hobby is filled with tons of egos of people who want to say they can do stuff as it makes them fell like Tim the Tool Man Taylor I guess. We all have talents and more then likely your not good at doing every single aspect of building a car. Now days it takes a team, Sheetmetal guys, Chassis guys, Mechanical guys and body guys and painters and interior guys. Its a tremendous team effort to build things that look good and perform well.

I have seen fabricators build a truck that they just changed the engine oil pan to clear the crossmember in their chassis and forgot the pick up tube seal so the engine had no oil pressure for a long long time as they couldn't figure it out. They are fabricators and not Mechanics. I have seen body and paint guys guys think they can do chassis work. And it drives like a tank. Body and paint guys who have zero clue what caster is. Or chassis fabricators who build a pan hard bar mount without reinforcement as they are not engineers but the welding on the frame is nice and tig welded. HAHA

I have heard awards of major Award winning cars that were built by super shops that caught fire in the customers drive way. Or major shops who send the customer on a cross country journey in a brand new car and tell them to watch the gauge as the fan doesn't always come on. REALLY??? 300 miles down the road it over heated at a truck stop in the middle of no where. It was the fan connector not being connected properly.

The true test of any builder is repeat customers. No one that is unhappy will build a 2nd or 3rd or 4th car if its junk. The other one is how many cars do you see for sale after its complete. Nobody divorces their wife because she is a great wife. I see cars that get passed around and sold at auction 2, 3 even 4 or 5 times at auction? Nobody sells a car because its so great and runs awesome all the time.

I say this all the time as I see guys who get taken all the time. This industry needs more education. Tech articles just sell parts and tell you how great junk parts are to intsall. Most guys have no clue how what they are looking at or how to REALLY build a car. I get a call every week from a guy wanting a camaro with All the cool parts for 20K. Painted and ready for SEMA and the track. Not gonna happen. Can't even buy the engine and trans you want for that bud.

And some cars just take more work to get right then others. You may be using the best builder ever and it might be struggle. The more custom the more chance for problems until that basic LS3 430 hp engine kicks you square in the nuts.

[DBasher]

Such a good discussion! Just like anything you have to qualify your builder and the builder should do the same with the customer. Neither side wants a headache and the realities and expectations should be layed out up front, time line, cost, warranty.
Because I don’t know, what exactly is discussed on a “pro” built car? Is a contract in place?