Budget '69 Camaro Track Car - NO WHINERS!

[GregWeld]

Never thought I'd ever have BEARING ENVY...


I will upgrade to all this stuff on the Mustang after the August Sonoma event... that way Ron Sutton (I have to include his name lest you guys think I'm taking Ron in So Cals advice for something... hahahahahaha) will have had a chance to really look see at the underpinnings in case there's anything else that should be done.


Again - since lots of people read this stuff..... There's nothing "wrong" with the Mustang the way it is... BUT!! As Ron helps me dial this car in - the speeds and corner loads increase.... and I'm no engineer - but I think they probably grow A LOT as you increase the speeds. I'm going to ASSume that the braking loads increase - as you go deeper into a corner at a higher speed -- which is going to ADD HEAT to the equation... and as I go faster / harder - then the tires start to heat up and on and on. So what's good at one/some point -- it becomes a liability at another.

We all love to buy parts! And we all want to have bragging rights for this wheel or this tire - or this big brake kit..... I've just never given any thoughts to the other little parts that might actually matter. Bearing failure in a high speed corner is not an option!

[Track Junky]

Thanks for the info Ron.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Originally Posted by GregWeld

Never thought I'd ever have BEARING ENVY...


I will upgrade to all this stuff on the Mustang after the August Sonoma event... that way Ron Sutton (I have to include his name lest you guys think I'm taking Ron in So Cals advice for something... hahahahahaha) will have had a chance to really look see at the underpinnings in case there's anything else that should be done.


Again - since lots of people read this stuff..... There's nothing "wrong" with the Mustang the way it is... BUT!! As Ron helps me dial this car in - the speeds and corner loads increase.... and I'm no engineer - but I think they probably grow A LOT as you increase the speeds. I'm going to ASSume that the braking loads increase - as you go deeper into a corner at a higher speed -- which is going to ADD HEAT to the equation... and as I go faster / harder - then the tires start to heat up and on and on. So what's good at one/some point -- it becomes a liability at another.

We all love to buy parts! And we all want to have bragging rights for this wheel or this tire - or this big brake kit..... I've just never given any thoughts to the other little parts that might actually matter. Bearing failure in a high speed corner is not an option!

I guess you will have to see if it needs an upgrade or not. I'm not sure how many options you have for larger capacity hubs but the nice thing is it will warn you, you just have to know what to watch for.

Thanks Ron,
I will continue to monitor Gaetanos bearing packs. If I see any signs of abnormal wearing or grease failure we will look at a different hub and or spindle.

[Sieg]

Originally Posted by Ron Sutton

Hey Guys, A front hub bearing is a lot like a brake rotor. The larger it is the better its mass can handle the heat generated. The smaller it is, the higher the temps get & you get grease burn out.

Exhibit B:

[Ron Sutton]

Originally Posted by Vince@MSperfab

I guess you will have to see if it needs an upgrade or not. I'm not sure how many options you have for larger capacity hubs but the nice thing is it will warn you, you just have to know what to watch for.

Thanks Ron,
I will continue to monitor Gaetanos bearing packs. If I see any signs of abnormal wearing or grease failure we will look at a different hub and or spindle.

Hey Vince & G ... and anyone running fast at track days on a budget ... the best advice I have for you is "clean, inspect, grease & replace often." Vince is already on this, but I don't want anyone following along to not understand how key that is.

Replace the outer bearings often ... they're cheap ... and when you replace them, make damn sure you're buying Timken & not some import bearing made with inferior steel. There is a difference in the quality of Timken steel. If Timken's bearing is rated at 917# ... what is a $7.99 china bearing made out of pot metal rated at?

For reference, I raced in an oval track series (West Coast NASCAR Modifieds) that required stock spindles & hubs (rules to control costs - LOL). These cars were light ... 2550# & ran 8" slicks of moderate hard compound ... on short tracks where cornering speeds were 50-55 mph. So less car weight, less grip & less load forces than we see with big tired PT cars at road course track days.

When we ran Granada hubs (2nd bearing from the left) we replaced the outer bearings after every 2-day event. When we stepped up to the Impala hubs (3rd bearing from the left) we replaced them after every 2nd event. The reason is, these bearings are not rated for the loads they are seeing.

On the stock cars ... with softer, bigger 10" slicks ... more weight 3100-3400# ... ran on bigger tracks with higher corner speeds & g-forces ... we run the bearings on the far right. We run the car all season & only replace the bearings after a full season of 25-30 events. They last, because we're within the load window the bearings were designed for.

Guys, my recommendation is, to those of us building these cars to be fast like race cars, driving them fast on race tracks ... we also build in safety like race cars ... AND ... service & maintain them often like race teams do ... to prevent bearing & other part failures that cause crashes.

[Vegas69]

Ron, Where does the C5/C6/Z06 Etc. sealed bearing assembly fit into this equation? The GM guys have the luxury of going with a ATS spindle that utilizes a c6 bearing pack. I know mine were still tight when I sold my car. Not that much road racing time, however.

[SSLance]

Originally Posted by Sieg

Exhibit B:

I saw that in person Saturday night and it was IMPRESSIVE!!!

[GregWeld]

Just the fact that we're having a discussion about bearings -- and temperatures -- and service items...


Makes me wonder how many guys haven't checked this stuff at all - let alone after really pushing their cars hard.


I know for me -- I have a pretty decent shop and tons of time... so it's pretty easy for me to put this stuff up on the hoist and go over stuff. But I know if I had kids at home - and work - and house stuff to attend to - the car might just get parked in the garage and forgotten about until it's time to run again.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

That's why shops like mine exist. : )

I have a few customers that never knew how to check their oil levels.

[Track Junky]

Originally Posted by GregWeld

I know if I had kids at home - and work - and house stuff to attend to - the car might just get parked in the garage and forgotten about until it's time to run again.

Great point Greg. Maintenance is extremely important.
My work day is 12 hours long. I have 3 kids, a wife, and on top of that I'm a landlord which sometimes takes up a day away from my weekends. I enjoy working on my car but realistically I don't have the time to give it the maintenance it needs.

Once again......Thanks Vince.