Question for our metal fabricators!!!

[DOOM]

[QUOTE=ironworks;331984]

Originally Posted by DOOM

Honestly, Trying to get it figured out with a MIG is totally different then a TIG. If you scribe tight light to trim and fit you can tack it up with the MIG. But learning how to weld sheetmetal is like trying to learn how to ride a bicycle when you want to ride a unicycyle. Just start now with the tig on 20amps and maybe buy some MIG wire to not build up your welds to much while your learning. The TIG welders out number MIG welders 5-2 in my shop and all my MIG welders are 110 volt except 1. I have 1 220 volt MIG.

Spend your time learning how to trim and fit sheetmetal very tight. Then learn to tack with the TIG.

Learn to cut gap and fit like this

Roger is that a cut a tight fit or is that a slight gap? If its a gap are you using a filler rod?

[GregWeld]

Mario --

The "pros" might offer a different opinion - but a "gap" is a burn through for me. I can jump the gap (I weld far more than the average guy but nowhere near what a pro does) but it's far more work and makes it far harder to weld.

Do not listen to the instructions on the tungsten stick out rules (3 x's the dia)...
If I can't SEE the tungsten I can't weld... so I run a bit more stickout (I also run a gas lens so gas flow is better - to cool the tungsten).

The fill is a coordination 'dance' for me - I move my torch forward which pushes the puddle forward and then I bring it back just a schoosh and as I do that I dip the fill then advance that (pushing it forward) and so on. I'm an old school gas welder - where you made circles with the torch and dipped the fill when the circle was 180* at the back of the circle (does that make sense). And I've tried that technique with my TIG torch but found it to not be necessary.

Do you have a foot control? I light it up - get the puddle started and immediately back off - dip - push forward - move back - dip - forward - and always watching the puddle and using the foot control to add or subtract heat as needed. I always "coast" up to the end of a weld - dipping a couple times to finish (eliminates the crater).

Also -- do you have the torch angled back - I'm probably at 30 to 45*. You can't angle back as much if your stick out isn't right... and the heat goes up as the gap of the arc lengthens (that might not be technically correct - but it's what I see). I keep the arc pretty tight - so on thin gauge sheet metal - the arc length is probably only a 1/8th inch maybe less.

Don't give up -- TIG is the best welding a guy can do.... the clean up is far less (easier) and the control is by far the best.

[DOOM]

Thanx Greg!! I'm commited to make this work I never give up ... But it is frustrating let me tell you . I'll bring my tungsten out a little more,and I just ordered the glass lens for the tig tourch. I do think vision is a big part of my problem. Its a little harder for me I have no vision in my right eye. I hope the new helmet works better than my Miller.. I looked at Rogers picture and I figured that it was a gap . Man thats some crazy control to be able to fill that gap..

[GregWeld]

Well..... there's always going to be a gap... But I like my gap less than the width of my fill rod...

I have a couple of torches -- and prefer my smaller "2 series" torch it's lighter and has a super flexible hose. The torch that came with my machine doesn't get used unless I'm doing something larger. I use a 1/16th tungsten... and 1/16th fill rod on sheet metal.

Torch size is important...

[ccm399]

Originally Posted by DOOM

Well attemps 1,2,and 3 are utter disasters!! Every night I've been spending a couple of hours trying to figure this tig out. For the most part I can control the tourch and run a nice bead by itself. But when I start to use the wire DISASTER!!! I'm using the mig wire as filler Roger said to start with. I'm having a hard time starting the puddle without burning through no matter how low I bring the amps down. I just ordered a new Optrel welding helmet. I think vision is part of my problem. So will see what happens with the new helmet when I get it...

Mario trust me you are going to LOVE LOVE LOVE that Optrel helmet. I just got mine the other day and MAN what a difference. I have used other highish end helmets and they do not even come close to the optics of the Optrel.

Greg is giving you great advice. I would add maybe try a thicker material until you are comfortable with the torch, filler and pedal control. Just some food for thought but hey I started with Aluminum so my opinion might not be the "norm". Actually I have an easier time with aluminum than steel but I have been practicing steel more lately so I can hold my own there now too.

Chris

[ccm399]

Originally Posted by GregWeld

Mario --


Do not listen to the instructions on the tungsten stick out rules (3 x's the dia)...
If I can't SEE the tungsten I can't weld... so I run a bit more stickout (I also run a gas lens so gas flow is better - to cool the tungsten).

Exactly what I have always said too! When I first started to TIG everyone said the same deal 3x diameter should be the stickout finally I started experimenting on my own and found MUCH better control with additional stickout.

[The WidowMaker]

i didnt listen and picked up the finger controls for my dynasty. huge disaster. trying to keep your hand stable while rolling the trigger doesnt work. i need to pick up the foot control and give it another shot. luckily for my exhaust i was able to do a fusion weld. it made controlling the hand controls much easier.

a couple things that i will echo; sight is very important. i was losing the battery on my miller helmet and just momentary flickering caused a huge distraction. also, the gas cups work wonders. i was able to use a little more stickout and still have great gas coverage. as greg said, a little extra stickout helps a lot.

also, not really what you are doing, but i found a back purge on my exhaust improved my welds over 30%. not sure the mechanics behind everything that was happening, but burn thrus were gone and penetration was much better with no extra heat.

[out2kayak]

Originally Posted by ccm399

Mario trust me you are going to LOVE LOVE LOVE that Optrel helmet. I just got mine the other day and MAN what a difference. I have used other highish end helmets and they do not even come close to the optics of the Optrel.

Greg is giving you great advice. I would add maybe try a thicker material until you are comfortable with the torch, filler and pedal control. Just some food for thought but hey I started with Aluminum so my opinion might not be the "norm". Actually I have an easier time with aluminum than steel but I have been practicing steel more lately so I can hold my own there now too.

Chris

Any particular Optrel? Optrel Satellite?

I have a Lincoln helmet currently. It's too dark and fogs up really easily (perhaps I'm breathing too hard?).

[ccm399]

Originally Posted by out2kayak

Any particular Optrel? Optrel Satellite?

I have a Lincoln helmet currently. It's too dark and fogs up really easily (perhaps I'm breathing too hard?).

e680. It is the new Satellite replacement. The only difference is it come with a backup battery to the solar cells. I have used both Miller and Lincoln helmet in the past and while they work just fine the Optrel is just that much better. Plus if you are doing real low amp stuff you can turn it all the way down to a 5 shade. Super light weight too.

I use a gas lens too. Very helpful.

Chris

[DOOM]

Originally Posted by GregWeld

Well..... there's always going to be a gap... But I like my gap less than the width of my fill rod...

I have a couple of torches -- and prefer my smaller "2 series" torch it's lighter and has a super flexible hose. The torch that came with my machine doesn't get used unless I'm doing something larger. I use a 1/16th tungsten... and 1/16th fill rod on sheet metal.

Torch size is important...

Its on the way Greg ! My tungsten is 3/32 as is my filler rod.. Changing all of it...

Originally Posted by ccm399

Mario trust me you are going to LOVE LOVE LOVE that Optrel helmet. I just got mine the other day and MAN what a difference. I have used other highish end helmets and they do not even come close to the optics of the Optrel.

Greg is giving you great advice. I would add maybe try a thicker material until you are comfortable with the torch, filler and pedal control. Just some food for thought but hey I started with Aluminum so my opinion might not be the "norm". Actually I have an easier time with aluminum than steel but I have been practicing steel more lately so I can hold my own there now too.

Chris

I have been jumping to much .. And have been staying with the thick stuff for now..

Originally Posted by ccm399

Exactly what I have always said too! When I first started to TIG everyone said the same deal 3x diameter should be the stickout finally I started experimenting on my own and found MUCH better control with additional stickout.

I've been playing with this and I agree a little more stick out is better...

Originally Posted by The WidowMaker

i didnt listen and picked up the finger controls for my dynasty. huge disaster. trying to keep your hand stable while rolling the trigger doesnt work. i need to pick up the foot control and give it another shot. luckily for my exhaust i was able to do a fusion weld. it made controlling the hand controls much easier.

a couple things that i will echo; sight is very important. i was losing the battery on my miller helmet and just momentary flickering caused a huge distraction. also, the gas cups work wonders. i was able to use a little more stickout and still have great gas coverage. as greg said, a little extra stickout helps a lot.

also, not really what you are doing, but i found a back purge on my exhaust improved my welds over 30%. not sure the mechanics behind everything that was happening, but burn thrus were gone and penetration was much better with no extra heat.

Back purge ?