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  #21  
Old 09-27-2012, 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by clill View Post
I think the 69 Camaro is a timeless design that stands on it's own regardless of what the latest trend is. I like to stay closer to stock looking.
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  #22  
Old 09-27-2012, 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by garickman View Post
I have wondered that about the carbon fiber craze going on. I know most people go with the carbon fiber products to reduce weight, (I would to if I had the money) but are the exposed carbon panels and the masking of various racing stripes eventually going to date the build. Kind of like the graphics craze of the 80's and 90's?
The next trend could be carbon panels for their weight reduction and strength with vinyl wraps for easy of change and durability.
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  #23  
Old 09-28-2012, 11:12 PM
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Im new to this stuff but have formed some opinions based on first hand experience. I only bring up my opinions to be helpful.

My interest is primarily in vintage Corvettes. I am building a pro-touring 65 Coupe and have a 68 Coupe rolling body ready for deployment. There are 50-75 custom Corvettes that go up for sale every year at the auction houses. Generally they are called resto-mods but are closer to pro-touring than most would think. Few come with roll over protection so that is one difference and most are geared towards comfort and driveabliity versus top-end performance.

Generally a pro-touring Camaro with all the functional bells and whistles, will cost +- $100k if there are no issues/compromises with $$$. Many end up being two seater performance cars. Most will have custom subframes but not chassis. Few to none will have irs.

A pro-touring Corvette/resto-mod will cost the same or less depending on donor car purchase cost. The C1-C3 modded car will have custom chassis, modern irs, drive train etc. For the same build cost and quality components, a superior car can be built if you consider custom chassis and irs superior. I know lots of guys will disagree with that "superior" comment. I say superior because it is mentioned many times in the Camaro/Mustang comparisons of newer cars.

C2 Corvettes are expensive. My build $$$ goal was to build the 65 to 100% of the performance values of a C6 Z06 and not exceed the cost of a new C6 ZR1. Im 90% done and so far so good. For the C3, I can almost reverse the goals and build ZR1 performance for the cost of a top of the line Z06.

Z06/ZR1 cars are expensive so it is easier to build a vintage PT corvette and have a better potential resale value. For evidence go to the BJ auction site search section, and type in custom Corvettes. It will spit up several years of auction sales and each car can be studied to estimate build cost versus return.

Last, my 65 donor car was around $35k, way too expensive, lol. My 68 donor was $3.5k with many C3 nom driveable cars in the $4k-$10k range. I am not building these cars to make money but didnt want to pi$$ it away either, lol. I will never sell them or at least have no plans to do so. I am simply sharing info for the guy who is searching for his next project and isnt happy with the prices of available vintage donor cars. When the cars are done I will join a motorsports ranch and have fun on the weekends. Watch out for the old retired Army guy, lol.
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  #24  
Old 12-23-2012, 09:48 PM
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Look at what Roadster Shop, Trepanier, Strope, Ring Brothers, DSE are all building. A bunch of stock looking cars with state or the art drivetrain. I think that is where the educated market is, the guys that know what they want. The guys that had the same rust bucket in hogh school and wants to relive his youth albeit finanicially much better. The one offs that will always be done are those individuals that want their personal touches and I doubt they are looking at resale numbers when they are done. Those usually guys take a bath on except the occasional home run.

Barrett Jackson I think is a different buyer on the whole. I think there if it looks the part and is the right color, I think it will bring ballprak price to a full tilt PT car and BJ has proved that point on several occasions as well.
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  #25  
Old 12-24-2012, 12:21 AM
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Originally Posted by garickman View Post
Just out of curiosity, what does everyone think is the best selling color? Both interior and exterior.
I think red and black, exterior or interior are the best sellers. But I work for a car manufacturer and I see alot of other colors that would work for me.
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  #26  
Old 12-24-2012, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by ratman67 View Post
mayhem is such a bad ass pro t car that mark probably just bumped the value of the 67 camaros, after reading about the build of mayhem i learned the 67 as a little smaller and lighter than the 69s i had no idea, cool to know, light is better but i personally like the body stye more than the 69, and vent windows rock....

i think #2 but within reason on the mods, a few interior changes can really improve the looks of some cars a lot...
Not likely, a majority of buyers won't have a clue who Mark Stielow is or have seen Mayhem. His cars are the cream of the crop and have added value due to his reputation.
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  #27  
Old 12-27-2012, 09:11 AM
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IMHO....

I've dealt with buyers and sellers in this market trying to move cars, I've been around the BJ crowd, and I've been building and rebuilding and dealing with the high end market for the last 7 years and this is what I've observed...

70% of the "buyers" have gotten the itch from a buddy that has a cool car. They have the means to buy what they want from their chosen career path and they have tired with the pedestrian Ferrari or Lamborhini and want something "different." These are your guys that are more about shopping the price than the car. Most wouldn't know a spark plug from a seat belt let alone a quality build. If they are lucky enough to find someone to educate them they will do alright and grow with the hobby but most of the time they end up buying a piece of junk that looks shiny and makes alot of noice, paying twice what it is worth then paying again to rebuild it. This is sad because many of these guys could become ligit car guys but end up getting burned and then get out.

20% are "car guys" who while they mechanically know about cars they really don't understand what goes into a comprehensive build. They would look at one of Stielow's cars and then look at a decent garage build with a shiny paint job and while the would know that Mark's car looks better they wouldn't know why. They would recognize that both cars come with good hardware but wouldn't appreciate the subtle details that define a high end car. Because these guys also don't truly know what goes into a high end build they will typically shop price over value... but they can also be educated into why a Stielow build has more value.... usually. Please no one take offense to this... just think of all of the car guys you know that have dismantled a car to restore it and then sold it years later in boxes because they ran out of drive. Living this business just gives you a different perspective on what building a car means.

Now if you are selling a car you want someone in this next 10% to show up

5% are Repeat Offenders. They have bought or built cars themselves. They have been through the drama of buying and rebuilding a bad car. They have caught the bug. They hang out in places like Lateral-G and have educated themselves. Although they may not have first hand experience putting together every nut and bolt on a build they have seen it happen and may have been writing checks to see that it was done right. They have an appreciation for quality and will pay for it rather than go through the drama again.

5% are professionals representing clients with the finanical means but not the technical background. These clients want a car that they can turn a key and go but never get their hands dirty so they hire someone like me to go shop cars for them. Typically if a professional shows up at your door it has already been shopped against a dozen other builds and your car initially meets the criteria the client is looking for. Professionals are a double edged sword; if you have a quality build it will be documented and you have a good chance of a sale for a solid price. If it isn't you will see a lot of note taking, head shaking and grumbling under his breath and will probably never hear from them again or get a lowball offer.


It is unfortunate to say that I've seen more bad builds than I have good builds. The "no holds barred, no expense spared" tag line is a red flag for something that will likely be junk. I've inspected $250,000 builds that they couldn't give away for $100k because the build was so bad. Another red flag is when a car is sold, then a year later sold again, then a year later sold again... I inspected a Charger build at on an auction floor two years ago that was like this. My client had been following the car and kept missing his chance to buy it and when it popped up at local auction he hired me to go look at it and it was a train wreck... another supposedly $200k "nothing held back" build. Good hardware where it was visible but poor planning everywhere else. Black paint was pinholed toe to tail.... The car sold for double what I felt it was worth to an online bidder sight unseen... the same way the selling owner had bought it and he was glad to unload it for most of what he paid for it.


I'd love to tell you that a quality build always means that you will sell your car for top dollar and a junk car will always sell for junk but the reality is that there are no guaratees in this business. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and thus goes the checkbook.

A top tier Builder name does go a long way to justifying value but if you can afford one of those names you probably aren't worried about resale. Beyond that it is really about build quality beyond the visual areas. Plan out all of your component locations before you make the permanent. Take the extra time to lay your wiring and plumbing cleanly. Minimize everything you can for a cleaner look. Be sure all the off show surface are properly painted and dressed. Use quality hardware everywhere. Spend the money for a decent exhaust system (Midas doesn't cut it for a $50k build let alone a 200k build.) Build the car rough- do all of your cutting, welding, grinding, fitting and then tear down the car for paint. Shop your Paint shop like your life depends on it... Bad paint will completely ruin all of the time you have invested. Make sure everything is 100% functional when done- no one wants to pay top dollar for a car that has to go right into the shop to fix sloppy workmanship .... and finally one of my pet peeves...throw away all of the scotch locks that come with the parts and wire the car properly.

I've rambled long enough!

Last edited by Revved; 12-27-2012 at 08:11 PM.
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  #28  
Old 12-27-2012, 10:15 AM
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  #29  
Old 12-27-2012, 10:23 AM
garickman garickman is offline
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Good information, thanks for posting
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  #30  
Old 12-27-2012, 10:39 AM
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Good write up
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