Camaro XV

[mikels]

Originally Posted by Stielow

The Plan
• Thomson 427 supercharged engine
• Better cooling package

Been working at Thomson's on further refinements / improvements for the 427SC package - always difficult to make the power, meet drivability requirements and control heat rejection - especially in a car that gets driven as 'gently' as Mark's.

Mayhem was a great step forward - picked up nearly 100 HP in exchange for 15 lb/ft TQ (from Red Devil) - while maintaining reasonable heat rejection.

Have several ideas - many of which can easily achieve 1000 HP - but not necessarily meet other requirements at same time. Testing (and data) will tell....

Will be fun to get new combo on dyno in near future!

Dave

[Stielow]

Originally Posted by mikels

Been working at Thomson's on further refinements / improvements for the 427SC package - always difficult to make the power, meet drivability requirements and control heat rejection - especially in a car that gets driven as 'gently' as Mark's.

Mayhem was a great step forward - picked up nearly 100 HP in exchange for 15 lb/ft TQ (from Red Devil) - while maintaining reasonable heat rejection.

Have several ideas - many of which can easily achieve 1000 HP - but not necessarily meet other requirements at same time. Testing (and data) will tell....

Will be fun to get new combo on dyno in near future!

Dave

For the guys who don't know Dave Mikels, he is one of my best friends and my secret weapon for POWER. We have known each other since we were roommates in college. On our Formula SAE car Dave was driveline and I was chassis. Humm 25 years later Dave is the Power guy and I'm the handling guy. Dave is also a great driver so we make a formidable team. We are also super competive guys so we push each other to be the best we can be.

Brain Thomson, Dave and I are kicking around a few ideas on if we need more power and how much. If I can hook it up I can always use more power.

Every car I build and drive I learn something. Mayhem worked great for a “new” car. The engine ran like a freight train and the chassis needed to be tweaked to better use it.

For fun I overlaided Red Devils and Mayhems laps from OUSCI and if you pull the best theoretical out of the data. (Mayhems power and breaks with Red Devil’s cornering speeds) the lap times come down 4 seconds a lap.
I’m very excited on Camaro XVs plan to move mass around in the car and redesign all the heat exchangers.

Someone asked why a ’69 and not a ’67. I like ’69 a little better and there are more parts for a ’69.

Mark

[jimbo]

So what color is it going to be?

[Stielow]

Originally Posted by jimbo

So what color is it going to be?

Well..... Not sure yet.

There never was a time I looked at Red Devil and did not love that red. I really like the white on Camaro X because I could wash it and dry in 10 minutes. Or some other solid color that can be retouched easily.

I have Murray Pfaff doing some designs so I have a lot of time to decide.

Mark

[Lous69]

Wow, sounds like that Formula SAE program at the University of Missouri- Rolla (UMR), which is now called Missouri University of Science and Technology), served to create some heavy hitters.

Mark Stielow,..... Kyle Tucker and now we learn Dave was also part of that program. Very Impressive.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Originally Posted by ratman67

what is heat rejection????

the removal of heat from a heat generator. Water to air cooling or the exhaust. In this case he was referring to the inner cooler or heat exchanger efficiency.

[mikels]

Originally Posted by Vince@MSperfab

the removal of heat from a heat generator. Water to air cooling or the exhaust. In this case he was referring to the inner cooler or heat exchanger efficiency.

In this case, there is 3 sources of heat - engine, supercharger and AC. Breaking that down further, engine heat in form of coolant and oil, supercharger heat in form of air and AC in form of refrigerant.

Engine heat in coolant and oil comes from the inefficiencies of an IC engine - only about 1/3 the energy released from combustion actually makes power, another 1/3 goes into cooling system (coolant & oil) and 1/3 goes out exhaust.

Since this is a SC engine, also have to take into account mechanical energy used to drive supercharger - in Red Devil and Mayhem, this worked out to ~120-140HP. So Mayhem generating an output of 878 HP is actually generating over 1000 HP already - and that also nearly equals the amount of energy we need to release from cooling system.

Complicating this further, we have the heat from the intake air charge to reduce as well - and use air-to-water heat exchanger with a stand-alone cooling system to then convert this with a water-to-air heat exchanger in front of car. Since delta-T is critical for heat exchanger effectiveness, we package the intercooler radiator in front of the cooling stack (all the heat exchangers in front of car) to get greatest delta-T for charge air cooling. This adversely effects radiator efficiency as air temp reaching front face of it is already heated above ambient. And we have 1000+ HP worth of heat to dissipate from it.

Packaged between the CAC (charge air cooler radiator) and the coolant radiator is the AC condenser. At least Mark hasn't become too much of a wimp is his old age to want to race with AC on, so while this doesn't add heat to air flowing through, it does add pressure drop of airflow through entire cooling stack.

We also have engine oil to contend with - and can either use oil-to-air heat exchanger, or oil-to-water. If oil-to-water, this is more KW to release through radiator. If oil-to-air packaging, airflow restriction and preheated cooling air have to be considered.

All this is converted to heat transfer equations and calculated to optimize the entire cooling system of heat rejection balance.

Drag racing is easy - you can get away with a whole lot if only running in <10 second bursts of WOT. Road racing makes this much more difficult as entire system reaches equilibrium.

And haven't even talked about trans and diff oil cooling yet....

Dave

[JohnC]

Wow, very cool, Dave. ...you are an awesome dude.

John

[frojoe]

Originally Posted by mikels

In this case, there is 3 sources of heat - engine, supercharger and AC. Breaking that down further, engine heat in form of coolant and oil, supercharger heat in form of air and AC in form of refrigerant.

Engine heat in coolant and oil comes from the inefficiencies of an IC engine - only about 1/3 the energy released from combustion actually makes power, another 1/3 goes into cooling system (coolant & oil) and 1/3 goes out exhaust.

Since this is a SC engine, also have to take into account mechanical energy used to drive supercharger - in Red Devil and Mayhem, this worked out to ~120-140HP. So Mayhem generating an output of 878 HP is actually generating over 1000 HP already - and that also nearly equals the amount of energy we need to release from cooling system.

Complicating this further, we have the heat from the intake air charge to reduce as well - and use air-to-water heat exchanger with a stand-alone cooling system to then convert this with a water-to-air heat exchanger in front of car. Since delta-T is critical for heat exchanger effectiveness, we package the intercooler radiator in front of the cooling stack (all the heat exchangers in front of car) to get greatest delta-T for charge air cooling. This adversely effects radiator efficiency as air temp reaching front face of it is already heated above ambient. And we have 1000+ HP worth of heat to dissipate from it.

Packaged between the CAC (charge air cooler radiator) and the coolant radiator is the AC condenser. At least Mark hasn't become too much of a wimp is his old age to want to race with AC on, so while this doesn't add heat to air flowing through, it does add pressure drop of airflow through entire cooling stack.

We also have engine oil to contend with - and can either use oil-to-air heat exchanger, or oil-to-water. If oil-to-water, this is more KW to release through radiator. If oil-to-air packaging, airflow restriction and preheated cooling air have to be considered.

All this is converted to heat transfer equations and calculated to optimize the entire cooling system of heat rejection balance.

Drag racing is easy - you can get away with a whole lot if only running in <10 second bursts of WOT. Road racing makes this much more difficult as entire system reaches equilibrium.

And haven't even talked about trans and diff oil cooling yet....

Dave

Spoken like a true engineer. Very well worded.

[Track Junky]

Thanks Dave, that was an interesting read.

Amazes me how you guys continue to raise the bar with each build.