Anyone else seeing an issue with companies going "China" on us?

[64pontiac]

Sorry for the lapse in posting....we had to let our media guy go. Its a position I need to fill again, and have a ton of need for, but the individual that had that spot took advantage of myself and our Company....so its been voided. My apologies to anyone who was caught up in the downward spiral, I think we have gotten on top of all the misinformation and returned all the appropriate calls etc. If I missed anyone, please EMAIL me at info@hpicustoms.


Anyways, back to my rant. I am not at all trying to out anyone in particular, or criticize America or anyone in it, just complaining about a common problem for the sake of open discussion. So to my question....... WHY does seemingly every company work so damn hard to develop and R&D killer products, develop a huge following, carve out a niche etc, and most of the time riding on the back of the phrase "Made in America" and then fall off the wagon?????

As small businesses, we strive so hard to do things the right way and ourselves, and if we have to farm out we support as local as possible. Obviously these parts producers are at least somewhat profitable like this, or they wouldnt get any larger or continue to grow. But then it seems they hit a turning point and seem to SECRETLY and quietly start having things made in China, Taiwan, Korea, etc and contiue to ride the coattails of Made in America????? These are what I would consider large brands too, that we idolize and covet as the best possible.

It seems the more of an icon they are, or if they have any of the key American words or States in their name, it becomes even more common? What gives???

At the end of the day, being someone who understands what goes into it, quality control, etc I would MUCH rather pay a bit more for a part that is OFFICIALLY made on home soil. Maybe it doesnt ensure that the quality is that much better, but what it does ensure is that it is almost as sure as rain RELIABLE and AVAILABLE. I'm so sick of excuses and delays only to realize the ship isnt unloaded yet, or that it is now unavailable because that factory shut down. Lets try and bring the process back home people...... everyone I am talking about has hundreds of thousands to millions worth of equipment, facility, and tooling to continue to make these products at home, and for those steps and process that they cannot do, your neighbor in your city, state, or the next one over can. We know you have the equipment to R&D and devolop the parts, keep it running and make the bloody things!

It sucks when you come up with a product that revolutionizes an idea or solution to the point where nobody even tries to compete, have us plan on using it in our builds, and then say oops....not available! I'm pretty understanding and sympathetic to the whole process....I can't keep up with my own demands let alone Summits market, but I also don't have a million dollar facility or a staff payroll that trumps most shops gross income for the year.....

Like alot of you, I have parts that I ordered and payed for in November that still are not here...... from multiple LARGE companies. Come on people.... step it up!

Thoughts?

[DavidBoren]

I, personally, do not care where a product is manufactured, so long as it is manufactured correctly. And I am dubious of the shortcuts required to ship a product half way around the world, and still offer it for a lower price than an indigenous competitor.

There isn't much you can do when companies still claim to uphold a higher standard of manufacturing, yet source out assembly/labor or small part building to cheaper facilities with lower standards. It's almost impossible to reliably follow that paper trail with any amount of certainty, so you have to trust the advertising and hope "made in where-ever" still means what you want it to.

That being said, we all know you get what you pay for. A lot of people try save a buck, and then cry "made in China"... it's not fair.

I am all for supporting local business. And it's great in theory. But the reality of this day and age is that we are a global market. It doesn't matter if you want to build local, and do business with the ma & pop machine shop in your old neighborhood... your competitors want profit, so they outsource, and you go out of business.

That is reality today, so we have to use the information available to us, and make well informed choices where we spend our money. If a company is putting cheap sh!t in their products, that information will get out, and it's up to you as a consumer to read reviews and do the research.

That's my take on it, at least.

[64pontiac]

I agree and see where you are coming from...but what sparked this wasn't ever a quality issue in this case. Its an issue rather of a part that we came to rely on and use religiously (for the most part this group as a whole) that is now simply NOT available. Why? One simple piece of the puzzle, and I guess we the public didnt buy enough for them to be bothered to try and make it here..... seems weird, as the products price has gone up in the last 10 years by 75%, so you know the profit margin is there.....

Now we are stuck with not great solutions..... or stock.

In this one case, I feel if there is never going to be a replacement at all, and we know what 95% of the pieces are, just make the last bit public knowledge and leave it up to us. If your going to let it die, share it?

[SWAPMEETCRAZY]

Tyler, I can remember the "china" issue being written about in either hot rod or carcraft mags over 15 years ago.....one of the "major companies" here was quoted as saying how there products were "made in America"......6 months later I buy one of there chrome breathers ....flip over lid and a big "made in china" sticker.......never forget my "WTF"'S AND A FEW OTHER CHOICE WORDS.......and yes it was Moroso.....jim

[64pontiac]

SWAPMEET..... yeah, went throught that after waiting 6 months for an oil pan from Milodon who kept saying they were making it..... then at the end told us that it isnt being made by their Chinese plant anymore. Go figure.

Anyways, I am just frustrated. I keep paying and waiting only to be disappointed time and time again. When you buy the lower priced stuff you expect it, but when you buy the premium stuff you dont.....until now.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a stranger to this. I know how it works, and I know why they do it, but sometimes after all the waiting and lies etc I figure that they could have sold the part more than enough in the 6 months they were waiting to offset the cost of welding it up here.

And I always expect the connectors, wire, grommets, hardware, and little things to be offshore regardless of who it is or what its advertised as.... but when it becomes even the CNC machined piece of aluminum, or the laser cut bracket, or the mandrel bent tube....all the pieces that even small guys like me are capable of doing IN HOUSE, then you throw your hands up and say WTF

[Flash68]

Originally Posted by 64pontiac

seems weird, as the products price has gone up in the last 10 years by 75%, so you know the profit margin is there.....

Maybe the cost of the materials for said product went up by 80%?

[Build-It-Break-it]

There is no such thing as made in the USA anymore. Cars are built with overseas parts (all cars), computers, shoes, cell phones, tvs,welders, refrigerators, replacement car sheet metal, etc etc. Even tho a business can claim made in America there doing it with overseas tools and equipment even if they don't know or care to admit it so what does it matter. There isn't anything that's 100% American made here with American equipment, cars, tools, electronics etc. Even miller welders took "made in the USA" off of there products, I wonder why. Things are meant to break now a days otherwise how would anyone make money?

For every one person who wants "made in the USA" there is 5 thousand people who don't care and would rather save money. The economy still isn't fully recovered and people just don't have money like they use to, or if they do they're more conscious as to how much they're spending and on what.

Immigrants dont help either. If your not born here what would they care about made in the USA. They're here for other reasons. This country is full of immigrants and the number is still climbing. Nothing wrong with it but things have changed because of it.

I say buy what's best for yourself and as a company do what's best to keep the quality,price affordable and feed your family. But if things were only being made here in the USA there would just be a domino effect of other events to come for people to still keep complaining.

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

And to think they got mad at me at pt.com for saying this same thing except saying that they copy even as small a company as PMC

I guess this opinion just isnt the more popular one.

[DavidBoren]

Oh, you can find plenty capable people anywhere you go. And most even partially developed countries have the resources to produce well-made products. I mean, America is still known for the quality of steel we produced 100 years ago, I would think that same technology (100 year old industrial revolution technology) has made its way to China by now. Which means that they should be producing steel at least as good as American steel from 100 years ago, but they aren't.

This isn't a discussion of potential, it's a discussion about the actual poor quality products being produced as a result of outsourcing. Whether it's from piss poor planning, lack of resources or training, it doesn't matter what part of the operation is failing. The result is the same, and that's products of poor quality.

If humanity was worth half a sh!t, we would bring industry and jobs to these countries to help their economies and infrastructure, instead of exploiting them for cheap labor. Then, everywhere would be a developed nation, everyone could be expected to produce equally high quality products, and then you have worldwide trade and commerce between equally developed nations. But no, we are too concerned with imagery lines in the sand, who's diety is better, and who has more shiny things.

And until we can get past that, I think we are stuck with products of dubious origins, made to meet questionable (if existent) quality standards. China should be more than able to produce the exact same quality of products as America, and still do it cheaper, because they don't have environmental protection laws. So factories there don't have to waste money recycling waste. All the cost of not raping the planet is reflected on to the customer, and BRIC, these fastest developing countries that were mentioned earlier, do not abide by any such environmental laws. So they are undercutting the rest of the civilized world, because Europe and America at least try not be so blatant with our disposal of industrial waste, so it costs more for us to produce the same thing.

[Build-It-Break-it]

Originally Posted by Mr.VENGEANCE

And to think they got mad at me at pt.com for saying this same thing except saying that they copy even as small a company as PMC

I guess this opinion just isnt the more popular one.

Going into everyone's for sale thread and bashing a member for selling parts you don't agree with is different then starting a thread like an adult to discuss the topic. There's very few ideas that are truly original.

I think this thread was more along the lines of companies initially starting off selling things made in the USA then slowly outsourcing there product to be made overseas but keeping the "made in the USA" sales pitch without informing customers .

I still don't think it's the companies job to inform the customer of every move they make. It's the customers job to do there own research even if that means calling the manufacturer and asking questions like everyone should. I do it all the time.