I bought a major Pro-Touring project from a high school, WOW what were they thinking!

[DannyZ]

So I buy a 1969 Camaro Pro-touring car from a closed high school class project. I spend a lot for it but the skinny is this, everything is brand new.....

New Dynacorn body
DSE front end sub frame
Heidts IRS rear
All new front sheet metal
Blue Print 490HP 396 cid small block
ProCar seats
interior
RS headlight conversion
Big Wilwood brakes
Tremco TKO 600 5sp
dual disc clutch
new glass
new trim
SS gas tank
Be Cool Aluminum Radiator
Billet Wheels
New tires
and a lot more

So the class teachers spend almost $85,000 in new parts and half assed bolted some parts on and that's where he ends and I begin, I purchased it for a less then half of that he paid for all the parts. So now I have to figure out what to keep and what direction I should head down to build a top notch Pro-Touring Camaro. Any help or thoughts as to what direction I should head with this project?? Thanks Dan

[camcojb]

That should be a great project. Welcome to the site!

[DannyZ]

I think that I have decided to go a different direction with the car. I'm going to sell the new 396 stroker and the Tremco TKO 600 and buy a LT-4 and a T56 trans. Then going to sell the front DSE front sub-frame setup and the Heidts PRO-G IRS rear end and order a Roadster Shop FastTrack Chassis to handle the added HP. I think that this would make more sense? But any input would be nice to here? Thanks Dan

[GregWeld]

Originally Posted by DannyZ

I think that I have decided to go a different direction with the car. I'm going to sell the new 396 stroker and the Tremco TKO 600 and buy a LT-4 and a T56 trans. Then going to sell the front DSE front sub-frame setup and the Heidts PRO-G IRS rear end and order a Roadster Shop FastTrack Chassis to handle the added HP. I think that this would make more sense? But any input would be nice to here? Thanks Dan

Danny --- While I'm friends with DSE - and RS guys... and I don't give a hoot who's stuff you buy.... I think you're idea about the "handling hp" might be a bit off.... as there are many cars on here with 1000hp and running DSE or SpeedTech or Art Morrison or Chris Alston stuff..... to name but a few of the manufacturers.

Get your plan together with a LOT more details ---- as in ---- EXACTLY what you want when you're all done. Tire sizes - USE - ride quality matter? - Drive a little or a lot? Do all that BEFORE you spend another dime or sell another piece off the car.

[DannyZ]

Thanks Greg and I agree

I plan on the LT4 engine and think I would be happy with the 650HP.
I plan to drive the car a lot on the street and even long cruises, so drive-ability and having it well dialed in is a must. I want the best handling I can get with as nice a ride as possible. I know that all of the builders we are talking about make great parts and I'm surely not trying to put any one down, but more looking at the build process like what you are talking about.

I like the DSE parts but it just seems for the amount of fab work to tie all three sections together, which in the end they are trying to made a full frame setup in a uni-body car for stiffness to improve handling. I sure that a lot of the companies built their kits so they can be done in phases as the car owners budgets will allow, thus the the companies can sell more kits then a full frame setup that is a big price tag to handle at once for some car owners, or they don't want to do a full rework so they can do it in stages and have their car off the road for less time and I get that part.
The DSE is parts are well proven, and I just think that if you do the math on a full frame and a separate stage kits, I think that in the end, that it is pretty close cost wise if you include the added fab needed for the DSE installs versa the full frame. So that's why I'm asking you guys this comparison, I truly value your opinions and your knowledge about these builds, and look forward to hearing your input on these issues. Also, it always seems to me , that in the past, I always say "If I had do do it over..." and it's always good to hear those kind of remarks that makes us better builders!!

[DannyZ]

I love this line Greg

I have less tools than I used to... So I'm going to start buying them back...

[GregWeld]

Originally Posted by DannyZ

Thanks Greg and I agree

I plan on the LT4 engine and think I would be happy with the 650HP.
I plan to drive the car a lot on the street and even long cruises, so drive-ability and having it well dialed in is a must. I want the best handling I can get with as nice a ride as possible. I know that all of the builders we are talking about make great parts and I'm surely not trying to put any one down, but more looking at the build process like what you are talking about.

I like the DSE parts but it just seems for the amount of fab work to tie all three sections together, which in the end they are trying to made a full frame setup in a uni-body car for stiffness to improve handling. I sure that a lot of the companies built their kits so they can be done in phases as the car owners budgets will allow, thus the the companies can sell more kits then a full frame setup that is a big price tag to handle at once for some car owners, or they don't want to do a full rework so they can do it in stages and have their car off the road for less time and I get that part.
The DSE is parts are well proven, and I just think that if you do the math on a full frame and a separate stage kits, I think that in the end, that it is pretty close cost wise if you include the added fab needed for the DSE installs versa the full frame. So that's why I'm asking you guys this comparison, I truly value your opinions and your knowledge about these builds, and look forward to hearing your input on these issues. Also, it always seems to me , that in the past, I always say "If I had do do it over..." and it's always good to hear those kind of remarks that makes us better builders!!

Danny --- This entire front sub - big tire - pro touring deal has grown so fast -- and now you add in there events like USCA - and OUSIC - and Good Guys Auto X -- and blah blah blah...... Now HANDLING is critical and everyone wants it.

That WAS what ProTouring was all about -- drive your 69 Camaro to the track in comfort - tunes blasting thru the cold air blowing ---- track the crap out of it and drive home....

These days that won't have you "competitive".... Now PT cars are C4 Corvettes... and full on race car builds if you want to "run" with the big boys....

Okay -- My point. Most people are simply building a real nice DRIVER - with way too much power (more than they dare use) - and big ass fat rollers front and back. If you can't carry em steam roller style in front - don't bother..... because you'll already be building a car that's dated.

This is where you have many bridges to cross -- crosses to bare - and Y's in the road.

People come here and say -- I want my car to ride nice and still be able to track and be competitive etc. Then we come on and say --- hey buddy.... those aren't as compatible as you think... so HOW competitive do you plan to be... and how much will you compromise -- and how many miles will you REALLY use the car when you build it with too much motor and nasty track suspension.... or you build a car that has all the right NAMES and none of it works together or isn't set up correctly, and you dang near roll the car the first corner entry. LOL


With any of these set ups - you're going to end up cutting the hell out of the car. Your tunnel already won't take the tranny -- the trunk pan and wheel wells are going to come out so you can install tubs and a newer fuel tank and be able to route the exhaust.... and the factory front sub is scrap already with your plans... and now you need to figure out if the LT-4 motor has headers etc that will fit the CHOICES you're going to make.... Not all of these subs are ready for the newest stuff.

My point --- you mention that you don't want to waste resources etc on fabrication and stuff like that --- and I'm just saying I would like you to dig in a lot more if that's a concern and take that list and make sure all of those items are going to work well together... and how many hours of fab you're going to be in to it already.

Right now is the time to engage a designer and get your look on paper --- and your list of GOALS for the car.... and then start to make your choices. There's a ton of them and they all affect your wallet -- your time -- and your eventual enjoyment.

Here's something.... you choose a standard "Ford 9 inch" and some big ass brake rotors and 315's in the stickiest version you can get.... and in ONE track event you find you have pad knockback..... it's affecting your driving.... and now you find the cure is a 9" with full floaters.... and that won't work with the chassis set up you have.....

We call that "CUT TO CURE" around here. LOL


I'm trying to be really really helpful here. You've got a great project -- and got a killer deal on it.... now's the time to make sure you don't waste that "deal" making mistakes. Just being on here shows you're smart and get it.

[Rod P]

Originally Posted by DannyZ

almost $85,000 in new parts and half assed bolted some parts on and that's where he ends and I begin, I purchased it for a less then half of that he paid for all the parts. So now I have to figure out what to keep and what direction I should head down to build a top notch Pro-Touring Camaro. Any help or thoughts as to what direction I should head with this project??

welcome

Originally Posted by DannyZ

I think that I have decided to go a different direction with the car. I'm going to sell the new 396 stroker and the Tremco TKO 600 and buy a LT-4 and a T56 trans. Then going to sell the front DSE front sub-frame setup and the Heidts PRO-G IRS rear end and order a Roadster Shop FastTrack Chassis to handle the added HP. I think that this would make more sense? But any input would be nice to here? Thanks Dan

keep the DSE front clip, get rid of the Heidts rear and just add the DSE quadralink, it will handle the power, pretty sure Kyles car is pushing 700 hp without a problem with his DSE stuff. just my opinion, unless you have buyers already for the old gear, the used/resale/changed my mind and selling my stuff market is tough

[Sheck44]

Dan, as above ... you needn't be concerned with this level of power to justify a full chassis. I run way more power than your expecting (as do a LOT of guys) and have no issues with their DSE front sub, and a quadralink in the rear. Add in the DSE weld in frame connectors and your good to go. This is unless you want the full frame chassis then go for it, but again not needed for 650 HP....

Cheers
Steve

[DannyZ]

So, keep the front DSE front end and what about the rear? Ditch the Heidts or keep it? If I ditch the Heidts, what is the "Best" replacement that will give me the best ride and handling? Also, I'm not worried about the cost of the full frame over the parts I have now, what would the difference in improvement over the two. It just seams that the sub frame connection setups are better at push pull forces front to back and not at good at the twisting up and down forces?

Also a few people think that I should just use the 396 stroker and run a FITech fuel unit on it and it would make a potent package over and LSX engine, any body have their two cents? I was just wondering how livable a setup like this would be since I have never run one like this and is 490HP considered enough now a days? ?