Hydraulic Throwout Bearing Issues (maybe) - help!

[James OLC]

I didn't see the relevance there myself...

The McLeod bellhousing makes it really difficult to check or double check any of the conventional alignment or runout specs - the big irregular hole might make it easier for some things but a consistent reference it is not. There is no indication on the pilot bearing or the input shaft of it being out of alignment but it is something that I am trying to rule out.

[KEISLER]

Originally Posted by XcYZ

Shafi, I don't see what pushing your kit has to do with the downshifting issue that James is seeing.

James, out of curiousity, did you check the bellhousing centerline alignment?

XcTZ,

The downshifting issue is very likely related to the clutch release issue. The clutch is not releasing cleanly. Once James get's the hydraulic bearing issue corrected, then he will next need to determine if the twin disk floater is moving cleanly and releasing the clutch.

Here's the "pushing sales" pitch, so brace yourself. Our hydraulic kits are a far more advanced and better design and we don't have these sorts of problems. Years ago before we discontinued the product in 2003, we sold many hundreds of the McLeod hydraulic product and the Street Twin clutch. We worked through these problems first hand, issued recall notices, issue repair/upgrade parts, issued replacement notices for the entire bearing.

In all fairness, my original post from yesterday fell short of conveying the proper level of information.

[KEISLER]

Originally Posted by reboot04

Yeah... thanks

And now back to something that's actually relevant/applicable...
(sorry pet peeve)

I'm still waiting for the replacment TOB (should be here tomorrow) but, following Andrew's advice, I picked up a proper Quartermaster machined alignment tool. More annoying than self serving tripe is the useless alignment tool that McLeod ships with thir clutch...

James, that is a lame reply to someone trying to help you. On the Pro-Touring.com website, I responded to your same call for help on the same issue here. Since my post above was unclear, I'll post some more information that should be a little more relevant:

First, here is the response I posted on P-T:
"James, I have not read all of these post replies, but I can tell you that if your numbers are correct then you are constantly engaging the clutch fingers and it would be a wonder the clutch is not burned up.

If the 2.25inch number is correct, you need to reshim the bearing to 2.10 - 2.0inch compressed and not any more. You can see my comments about why on the other thread mentioned with the Pontiac guy with the Weir bellhousing.

If you hit a wall on this, PM me and we'll help you further."

It's clear to me - with the experience of selling more than several hundred of the same McLeod bearing you are using, and more than a couple hundred McLeod Street Twin just like you are prematurely toasting - that either the wrong bearing piston size was sent (bolt-on design) or you installed it wrong (slip on design). Either way the instructions that came with the product *should* have provided you with adequate information to prevent this problem.

Next, you can set up the bearing however you'd like, but I will tell you what you *should* do if you don't want to continue ruining the clutch:
1. maintain .150 +.05 / -.03 clearance from the fingers of your clutch to the face of the bearing in the compressed state
2.A) if you are using the McLeod slip on type, LOCKTITE BLUE the thread in sleeve so it doesnt' back in or out, because it will likely change position if you don't
2.B) if you are using the McLeod bolt on type, the pistons are numbered 1-8, and they increment in .200 inch. So you will will need to determine which piston change by the amount of interference or air gap. You can't do this with the unit apart as you are trying to do.
3. pre-bleed the entire system, then install it to the car and final bleed it
4. if you did everything above correctly, AND you have the correct master cylinder bore and stroke AND you have connected it to the pedal at the correct location to achieve the correct throw WITHOUT bottoming out the master cylinder before landing the pedal on the floor THEN the clutch should release at 1/3 to 1/2 of pedal travel. IF it releases at the top of the pedal, then you need to go back to square one and recheck you numbers.


A couple other tips for the McLeod hydr bearing - both slip on and bolt on:
1. if it comes with banjo joints, throw them away and make hard lines. You can get the inverted flare seat fitting with the correct male side to screw in from most any good hydraulic store
2. get a couple spare sets of o-ring kits from them 'cause you will need it and you don't want to be stuck without one. They used to send a spare oring set with the unit just for this purpose.
3. run DOT4 fluid


Good luck

[James OLC]

I guess my frustration with your post(s) is that appears, at least to me, that (as you mentioned on the PT reply) that you haven't read through the thread and are not addressing my issue. I appreciate your input and that you have a bunch of experience but your first reply here yesterday was a promotion for a product that you offer that does not fit my car - not a solution. Your post today, while informative, is also not applicable to my circumstance. I don't have a McLeod TOB...

[James OLC]

I do agree that the clutch release and hydraulic 'system' is very probably the issue - especially given the appearance of the clutch (ie. not burnt up or abnormally worn) but again, your product does not appear to be applicable to my application (ie. Tilton 77 series MC with 900-series pedal assembly).

[KEISLER]

Originally Posted by reboot04

I guess my frustration with your post(s) is that appears, at least to me, that (as you mentioned on the PT reply) that you haven't read through the thread and are not addressing my issue. I appreciate your input and that you have a bunch of experience but your first reply here yesterday was a promotion for a product that you offer that does not fit my car - not a solution. Your post today, while informative, is also not applicable to my circumstance. I don't have a McLeod TOB...

James,
I read through ALL of this thread's post before replying today. The majority of what I posted regarding setup is relevant for the pancake style slip on CSC hydraulic bearings.

In fact, we do offer a solution for this unless I am missing something that you have declared in this thread.

Regarding your clutch, I am unsure how to read your comment about the pristine condition of the clutch. Indeed, the Street Twin clutch pictures presented are not of a pristine clutch, but one that is showing considerable signs of hotspotting and abnormal wear. I'll exit off this thread, and I wish you the best in getting it all worked out.

[Harri-76]

Originally Posted by reboot04

I am going to be the first to admit that clutches (et al) are not my strong suit to begin with and the T56 and hydraulic TOB in the '67 is the first one that I have ever done (besides servicing in my old WS6).

That said, as a lot of you know I was having issues downshifting the car car at the Optima challenge - the car would upsift fine but when I tried to do higher speed/rpm downshifts the transmission wouldn't slip into gear. Heck, it wouldn't be forced into gear either... some times it would go with a little more aggressive blip but not always.

Opinions at the time ranged from transmission (doubtful - new by Rockland), to fluid (it was full), to clutch/TOB engaugement (possible), and hardware issues (but after inspection nothing is loose, backed out or missing).

So, out comes the transmission. At first look everything appears to be ok - nothing is loose or appears unusual. So, following some instructions I found on the RAM site I take some measurements to see if maybe the TOB needs a shim (which was one of the more common suggestions up front).

I measured the distance from the clutch fingers to the bellhousing mounting surface - 2.25".

I measured the distance from the compressed TOB bearing surface to the plane of the transmission mounting surface - 2.4"

It would seem to be (and as admitted, I am a far cry from an expert here) that the TOB isn't compressing enough and that based on these measurements there is pressure on the clutch fingers all the time.

so...

Does anyone have any suggestions, ideas, or recommendations on what these measurement mean and what remedy there may be?

My first thought was maybe bad TOB?

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,
James

I had the same problems like you James. I´ve tko 600 and pretty much the same combo on my vette. I had difficulties tu shift up and down on high rev (above 2500). The problem was that I had a slight pre-compression on the clutch assembly and for that reason it didn´t reliese the clutch fully when driving hard. -> That way the sncrons won´t work the way they should and it is hard to do shifting. Let me know I´m just speeking BS, because I have learned thise things by doing something wrong in the first place.

That is my best quess right now.