3 link suspension

[Mean 69]

Here's the rest:

The housing. I will state that the tube structures are less than .100" wall thickness, with the actual axle tubes being of a different dimension. Sorry specific details are proprietary, I hope you can understand. All of the tubes for the Watt's location do two things: one, they are responsible for carrying ALL lateral loads and transfering it into the frame via the Watt's link. We do not tolerate deflection, or fatigue issues. Two, this structure, as well as the additional back-bracing creates a very strong (in bending) axle assembly, while allowing light weight materials (load paths considered). So what? Well, one very important thing: axle assembly deflection. Today's tires stick pretty darned good, and in addition, horsepower doesn't seem to be the limiting factor in most cars these days, north of 500 HP is considered normal. These two factors result in one really nasty outcome for a car: toe-out during forward acceleration. Our opinion is that this MUST be avoided at all reasonable cost, especially in corner exit, a toe out condition in this case will make the car tend towards oversteer, so the driver will have to back off of the throttle to let things settle, we don't like that. Okay, that's all fine. What does it weigh? All in, the axle assembly (without axles, center section, or brakes)weighs a touch less than 60 pounds (we can custom make lighter ones for race applications). Add in an aluminum gear carrier from Strange, which is about 14 pounds, and the rear is right around 70 or so pounds. How much does a 12 bolt rear weigh without brakes, axles and center section? Honestly, we don't know, but we are completely confident that there is no possible comparison in overall strength, torsional and bending rigidity.

I am sure there is something I left out. Please be patient with follow-on questions, we are working very hard to get ready for the show, and I cannot spend a lot of time behind the keyboard. I hope that this at least gave you something to chew on (other than pretty pictures), and if you have other specific questions, please bring them on. I'll do my very best to answer them without giving up specifics of the design that others can grab without having to do the dilligence that we went through. Frankly, I live for the tech, and I have complete confidence in being able to describe our design, and why it takes the form that it does, in any level of technical detail. And if I don't know, I'll tell you. If you have a better idea, we would LOVE to hear about it, we thrive on learning and applying new ideas. And please guys, I ask all of you guys to relax, this forum is the best one going right now, I hope we can keep it that way.

Cheers,
Mark

Edit: Added another pretty picture, well, I think it's pretty.

[Damn True]

Mark,

Wow!

Good tech stuff rawks!

[iapitapun]

Originally Posted by Mean 69

My credentials are BS Applied Physics, Optics, with a smattering of graduate studies in Optical Engineering, as well as graduate level Business. Katz is a BSME. We also consult with professional engineering firms for supplemental analysis that we do not have the capability to do, these firms (one main firm) have a tremendous amount of depth. My last position in the corporate world was Director of Core Module Engineering for a medical laser company, where I had a team of highly skilled engineers from multiple disciplines that designed an incredibly complex opto-mechanical/electro-optical laser based delivery system for use in vision correction surgery. In relative terms, the engineering complexity of designing a performance suspension system is childs play compared to the projects I have successfully led in the past (this is no way intended to belittle what we are doing, nor is it to too my own horn).

So, you are not a suspension engineer. For that matter you are not an engineer. Director of a medical laser company does not correlate to suspension engineer in any way. Just an observation.

The Watt's brackets are placed below the axle for a couple reasons: our philosophy is to have low RRCH, placing the pickup points lower on the axle puts the bellcrank more in line with the pickups, and therefore reduces the bending moment on the links themselves (more of a compression/tensile load in this fashion).

There is a bending moment on the links? How does that happen with a rod end?

Again, most of my questions have not been answered. Maybe they were lost in translation or you just don't have the numbers. You may want to have them handy at some point in the future. It may help market it better. Right now I keep seeing excerpts from Milliken and Adams. I have those books. I do not need to read them here.

The things I would still like to see are:

1. Was this designed for a range of ride heights? If so, what is the range and the Jounce and Rebound levels for each ride height.
2. It looks like the tubes for the watts link hang below the diff. How far below, and what is the ground clearance at curb and full jounce?
3. What is the rear roll steer % at each curb height?
4. What is the range of anti squat and anti lift %?
5. I know you need to remove a portion of the tunnel, do you need to remove any of the floor or trunk to accommodate the rear mount for the three link. It seems like it would limit jounce travel.
7. How long are the links for the watts link? What about the length of the bell crank? I guess I can always scale them from a drawing or measure them at SEMA.

These sound like items that should have been design criteria.

I wish you luck. It might be wise to have this information available at SEMA.

[Teetoe_Jones]

iapitapun-
Welcome to Lateral-G. We are a close nit family here, and like to know each others names. What is yours, and where are you from?
If I didn't know better I'd say you either came from CC.com and want to remain an 'unknown', or you are a competitior trying to get info.
Just an FYI, Mark doesn't need to be an Engineer to have an idea for a 3 link. He employs Katz, a suspension engineer, formerly of Art Morrision, and he knows what is up. I do the exact same thing in my business. I have the ideas, and my engineer makes the parts.
Just wanted to say hello, and get to know a little more about you, your company, and your background. Again, welcome to our little corner of the web.
Tyler

[iapitapun]

Originally Posted by Teetoe_Jones

iapitapun-
Welcome to Lateral-G. We are a close nit family here, and like to know each others names. What is yours, and where are you from?
If I didn't know better I'd say you either came from CC.com and want to remain an 'unknown', or you are a competitior trying to get info.
Just an FYI, Mark doesn't need to be an Engineer to have an idea for a 3 link. He employs Katz, a suspension engineer, formerly of Art Morrision, and he knows what is up. I do the exact same thing in my business. I have the ideas, and my engineer makes the parts.
Just wanted to say hello, and get to know a little more about you, your company, and your background. Again, welcome to our little corner of the web.
Tyler

I got here by following a thread from Pro-Touring. What does CC have to do with anything. At least CC allows people to post real questions. I have read this thread over an over and keep seeing chatter of SVSA length, roll steer, etc. All I asked is tell me what the result was.

Maybe it would be better if I said it RAWKS

How does any of the help a competitor, how is it proprietary?

Yeah I get that it is a close nit group and you all want mark to make tons of money. When I see statements about bending moments in links I get a little nervous.

Earlier in this thread the statement was made that this is the best suspension on the planet, bar none at any cost. Prove it. That is all I ask.

Telling me the SVSA length or the adjustability range should not be proprietary. The Antisquat and lift ranges are not either. These are marketing blurbs. Technical marketing blurbs.

The funny thing is thes questions are here to help everyone. This suspension will require heavy modification to my car, and set me back a few bucks. I want to know some technical stuff. Why can't anyone see that.

Hey if the questions I am asking are all proprietary I apologize. I am sure I can call any manufacturer out there and have them give me anti-squat numbers. As a new company mark and company are going to have to prove themselves.

Bottom line, my 6 questions have values associated with them. None of which will compromise any part of his design. If he has them, I would love to see them. If not, good luck marketing this product.

I am tired of typing. I will look for my answers later in the day.