B spindles vs. CPP C5 conversion for '68 Chevelle

[68Malibu383]

I'm interested in improving the braking and handling of my '68 Chevelle. I plan to do some autocross and non-competitive and mild open track driving. I have run a late model Mustang Cobra at autocross and open track, so I'm familiar with the demands placed on the brakes/suspension.

With the B spindles, I can't imagine that a 12" rotor would be adequate for a 3,500 lb car running open track. I know folks do it, but anyone out here have any real-world experience to share with B spindles running open track? If so, what rotors, pads, cooling?

The other option would be the CPP C5 conversion with 13" rotors. I'd probably just buy the spindles and hubs and buy brand-name rotors, pads and reman I'm interested in improving the braking and handling of my '68 Chevelle. I plan to do some autocross and non-competitive and mild open track driving. I have run a late model Mustang Cobra at autocross and open track, so I'm familiar with the demands placed on the brakes/suspension.


With the B spindles, I can't imagine that a 12" rotor would be adequate for a 3,500 lb car running open track. I know folks do it, but anyone out here have any real-world experience to share with B spindles running open track? If so, what rotors, pads, cooling?

The other option would be the CPP C5 conversion with 13" rotors. I'd probably just buy the spindles and hubs and buy brand-name rotors and reman vette calipers from a source I'm comfortable with. Anyone have any rear-word experience with this setup and how much handling is improved? I can't find much feedback on this conversion. I know folks complain about CPP copying another company's design, and I'm not interested in hearing about that.

[grif54]

I am not sure what your budget is but you could still use your stock spindle with a kit from Kore 3 who is a sponsor on here. They have kits for stock spindles that use C5/6 Corvette brakes that are very reasonable, all new parts too. I am eventually going to get a kit from them for the C6 ZO6 calipers on stock spindles. I haven't personally talked to them but a lot of members here have nothing but great things to say about the owner. Good luck with your decisions.

[Apogee]

Originally Posted by 68Malibu383

I'm interested in improving the braking and handling of my '68 Chevelle. I plan to do some autocross and non-competitive and mild open track driving. I have run a late model Mustang Cobra at autocross and open track, so I'm familiar with the demands placed on the brakes/suspension.

With the B spindles, I can't imagine that a 12" rotor would be adequate for a 3,500 lb car running open track. I know folks do it, but anyone out here have any real-world experience to share with B spindles running open track? If so, what rotors, pads, cooling?

The other option would be the CPP C5 conversion with 13" rotors. I'd probably just buy the spindles and hubs and buy brand-name rotors, pads and reman I'm interested in improving the braking and handling of my '68 Chevelle.

Welcome to the forum. Given your intended usage, there are far more options out there than just the B-body spindle swap and the CPP C5 spindles, so that makes me wonder why you've limited yourself to those two options. As a brake guy, we like to see you figure out your suspension first, then your brakes, then your wheels/tires, as this seems to keep the need to buy things twice down to a bare minimum. Obviously you'll need to keep your desired tire size and brakes in mind when choosing suspension, but working from the inside out generally works out the best in my experience on these types of builds.

There's a ton of info regarding the F/B-body spindle swap (tall spindle conversion, negative roll system, etc) on the forum, and most would agree that that "upgrade" has too many negatives with respect to Ackerman, bumpsteer and track width to justify the improvement in negative camber gain in bump, so I would not personally suggest that you go that route. Additionally, the 11" or 12" brakes on the GM tall-spindles are not up to the task of open road course racing in anything more than a casual manner, however that can be addressed with performance brake options for those spindles if so desired.

You can achieve better suspension geometry with a tall-ball joint kit on your factory spindles (Mark at SC&C) or you could opt for one of the many aftermarket options like those offered by Ridetech, Speedtech, DSE, BMR, UMI, ABC, Hotchkiss, etc...there's no shortage of options and I'm sorry to everyone I didn't mention by name. Good companies will stand behind their products and provide any and all the support you may need during installation and tuning.

There's also a ton of help available through these forums, so you're on the right track!

HTH,
Tobin
KORE3

[68Malibu383]

Thanks for the detailed info, Tobin. The reason I was interested in B spindles or the CPP C5 kit, is cost. Just trying to keep things realistic for me and knowing that I will not punish the car too hard. I plan on running the Vintage Wheel Works V40, 17". And, I will run an aftermarket upper control arms and planned on reinforcing the stock lowers. Thanks again!

[Vince@Meanstreets]

If I had to choose between the two I'd go CPP being budget minded. It'll get C5/6 brakes on your car for much less. Cheaper to buy the spindles and go Raybestos for everything. A set of loaded calipers from Tobin is a good since there is no core charge.

[Apogee]

Originally Posted by 68Malibu383

Thanks for the detailed info, Tobin. The reason I was interested in B spindles or the CPP C5 kit, is cost. Just trying to keep things realistic for me and knowing that I will not punish the car too hard. I plan on running the Vintage Wheel Works V40, 17". And, I will run an aftermarket upper control arms and planned on reinforcing the stock lowers. Thanks again!

I would suggest that you call Mark at SC&C and look into his Stage II+ kit, as it will reuse your factory spindle, provide a slight drop from the tall lower ball joint, which will also improve the bump steer curve, and increase your negative camber gain with the tall upper ball joint. The SPC upper control arms will allow you to get everything easily installed and aligned, and you can reinforce in the OE lower control arms to your heart's content.

Tobin
KORE3

[dale68z]

I'll fess up to running b body spindles with a 12" rotor on my 3600# Camaro. I have ran my setup for over 3 years.

I run a high quality rotor. I repack bearings, and bleed the brakes every other weekend.
I run stock calipers with hawk dtc 30 pads. 7/8 master with power brakes. The pads last about 3-4 months. About the same amount of times a set of tires last. Rotors are changed when the pads are changed.

I have not needed more braking force with 275 40 17 NT05's. The car stops very well. The biggest issue is heat. I have no problems whatsoever on track. It is a 1" thick rotor, and mass is a big factor coping with heat. My rotors are blue half way to the wheel mount surface, and get heat cracks after 1 day. New calipers turn blue on the outer pad mount. We run a lot of HPDE track days, at the very least once a month. I feel I run the car hard.

We will be running auto club speedway in 2 weeks, then spring mountain in 4 weeks, and the week after, Inde motorsports Ranch.

I am getting tired of the maintenance and concerned about the heat. There are times the pad will smear into the rotor. This gives me a bad brake pulsation. It will come and go depending on pad temp. I have to machine off the pad transfer on the rotor.
I am installing bilge blowers on my brakes this week to help cooling

So, if you are going to run hard, invest in thicker, larger diameter rotors than the 1LE. I saved money on the initial install, but have to bleed, pack bearings, replace pads and rotors a lot. In fact I buy pads 2 sets at a time. I could have bought a z51 or wilwood brake setup for the money I have spent maintaining my 1LE brakes.

I am looking into upgrading my brakes all around.