Ridetech four link vs speed tech torque arm rear suspension

[Sieg]

Drag valving on a PT Car.........

[DBasher]

This is why I didn't mention names, always another side to the story. Just a group of guys shooting the sh1t in a parking lot...talking about broken parts.

Glad you both are getting it worked out, looks like a well built and fun car.

Ron Sutton should start a business helping people build and tune these cars He's everywhere!


Dan

[GregWeld]

Originally Posted by DBasher

Ron Sutton should start a business helping people build and tune these cars He's everywhere!


Dan

Yeah — he really should just go away, and stay away, and stop flapping his lips.

Or as a customer once told me as I walked in to the shop - and he’s pointing his finger at the door I just walked thru —- I’ll give you an order! Get out! Stay out! And don’t come back! 😂

[Blake Foster]

Originally Posted by Sieg

Drag valving on a PT Car.........

Well in the customers defence Afco did not provide any valving information or dyno sheet (from what I am being told) so it may have been hard to know if they were correct.
The shocks I sent him are Ridetech single adjustables so we know there wont be an issue with the shock going forward, if there is he can call Bret!!! lol

[Ron Sutton]

You guys are awesome.

[Sieg]

Originally Posted by Blake Foster

Well in the customers defence Afco did not provide any valving information or dyno sheet (from what I am being told) so it may have been hard to know if they were correct.
The shocks I sent him are Ridetech single adjustables so we know there won't be an issue with the shock going forward, if there is he can call Bret!!! lol

I'd think the feel (squat) would be dramatic. It begs the question: What shock does he have up front?

PS - Nice pass!

[bret]

Originally Posted by Blake Foster

You are talking about Keith from Custom Works, I should probably clarify and add to the info you posted. We have been looking at the torque arm that came out of the car, and have pretty much determined the cause. Keith runs Afco double adjustable shocks. the valving on them (according to Afco is a Drag Race set up) is SUPER soft and he was experiencing brake wheel hop (we never see this and even Ron Sutton who I asked for a non bias opinion said flat out "no way you should be getting any brake hop from a torque arm unless the shocks are too soft or too firm). due to the shock not being able to control the rear suspension. This in turn transferred into the torque arm and the metal was deformed and stressed to a point that it tore. we have NEVER seen this in all the time we have been building the torque arm 6 years now, you know how my Nova gets Driven.... and there have been no issues. we have addressed the issue by supplying a different set of shocks for Keith to try and I am positive he will not have the problem again.

In Talking to Keith I don't think he "HATES DRIVING THE CAR" he said to me that he likes the way it drives it is just different than his old leaf spring set up.

Yep...there is always another side to it. Its frustrating for any of us manufacturer or consumer] to become a victim of an unusual combination. As a manufacturer, who would have thought that the customer would be using a soft drag racing style valving on a autocross/road course? As a consumer, who would have thought it mattered?

I think both designs have a lot of merit and would work nicely in any car they were optimized for. This is more than just a politically correct statement. If there was a CLEAR advantage to one over the other, one of us would have changed over to it by now.

In EVERY engineering project, one must start by deciding the priority of the performance criteria, knowing that as the project goes along you may have to re-evaluate those priorities. In no particular order, weight, fitment, manufacturability, price point, tunability [and the customers ability to tune] and ultimate performance all go into this mix. Every manufacturer has their own [valid] idea of the correct priority.

Although I am familiar with the torque arm design concept, I do not pretend to be well versed on it because I have not spent years living with it. I have however raced against cars using this design. The self serving part of me wants to tout that we have always run right with those cars. The reality is that those cars have always run right with us too

So, which is better?

Carry on...

[Sieg]

Originally Posted by bret

As a consumer, who would have thought it mattered?

If there was a CLEAR advantage to one over the other, one of us would have changed over to it by now.

The self serving part of me wants to tout that we have always run right with those cars. The reality is that those cars have always run right with us too

So, which is better?

Carry on...

Lack of consumer knowledge regarding shock valving is a major challenge. I'm continually surprised at the number of people I come across that have been longtime motorcycle or car enthusiasts yet have very little understanding of shock function and valving, let alone how critical it is regarding comfort or performance. Of the two groups the ones who best understand it are the faster off-road motorcyclists.

There are numerous avenues to get to the same destination aren't there.

Tell me which oil is better and.........

[CURVES]

Originally Posted by Blake Foster

You are talking about Keith from Custom Works, I should probably clarify and add to the info you posted. We have been looking at the torque arm that came out of the car, and have pretty much determined the cause. Keith runs Afco double adjustable shocks. the valving on them (according to Afco is a Drag Race set up) is SUPER soft and he was experiencing brake wheel hop (we never see this and even Ron Sutton who I asked for a non bias opinion said flat out "no way you should be getting any brake hop from a torque arm unless the shocks are too soft or too firm). due to the shock not being able to control the rear suspension. This in turn transferred into the torque arm and the metal was deformed and stressed to a point that it tore. we have NEVER seen this in all the time we have been building the torque arm 6 years now, you know how my Nova gets Driven.... and there have been no issues. we have addressed the issue by supplying a different set of shocks for Keith to try and I am positive he will not have the problem again.

In Talking to Keith I don't think he "HATES DRIVING THE CAR" he said to me that he likes the way it drives it is just different than his old leaf spring set up.

Blake,

Would the shock contribute to excessive noise transmitted thru the torque arm?
I know noise was something Keith was talking about. I'm not sure what gear set he has, I know you mentioned that some gears are noisier than others.

[Blake Foster]

Originally Posted by CURVES

Blake,

Would the shock contribute to excessive noise transmitted thru the torque arm?
I know noise was something Keith was talking about. I'm not sure what gear set he has, I know you mentioned that some gears are noisier than others.

We have done lots of testing with rubber mounting and Delrin bushings, there is some noise associated with the driveline/suspension but when we tried rubber bushings there was NO NOTICABLE decrease in the noise, I will say we have a 69 here in the shop that has all Ridetech suspension in it 4 link, front truturn, shocks and it TOO is noisy............. so you tell me.

I don't think the shock itself would ADD or Reduce the transfer of noise. we have tried it both ways. I do keep going back to the Explanation and example of the OEM'S, they spend countless millions to reduce and eliminate noise and vibrations in NEW cars, I watched a show where Aston Martin uses a "Dynamat" type material to help eliminate noise in the DB but it is all computer designed shapes and they use a template to locate it and it is all tested in a sound room. I mean really!! so then we want a 45 year old car to be the same or close, but we go and put LS engines and t56's and 9" rear ends and solid body bushings and and and . The car was loud when it was new............... Keith mentioned that the sound changed when he installed the Torque arm, I don't know if he did a new rear end at the same time and what else. I know from experience driving my Nova that there are lots of noises, the tires Falken Azens are probably the biggest culprit. I had a set of Continental Slicks on all 4 corners for some testing and honestly the car was so quite you would think it wasn't running ???? mine has a slight rear end whine but I mean slight, in 5th and 6th gear if your cruising and apply throttle the trans makes a crazy grinding vibration sound till it gets loaded up (maybe 1-1.5 seconds) and then its fine. it has always done this?? do I care. not really but other than that the car is loud, Exhaust, wind noise, STEREO!! it's LOUD, the WIFE yelling at me to SLOW DOWN!!
Not sure if all this matters but it maybe sheds some light on the question. these cars are not NEW and I don't care what you do to them they will never be like a new car.