Getting ripped off by thieves and vendors (Sometimes at the same time)

[GregWeld]

Erik --- EXACTLY -- you might get the judgement but good luck getting any money.

Further -- Wire fraud -- by definition has nothing to do with the fact that you "wire transferred funds".

You would have to PROVE that he/she set about to defraud. Doubtful that you can prove anything like that against a merchant that is in business and simply offered to supply you with goods -- but failed to do so. That is NOT wire fraud.

WIRE FRAUD
18 USC 1343, makes it a Federal crime or offense for anyone to use interstate wire communications facilities in carrying out a scheme to defraud.

A person can be found guilty of that offense only if all of the following facts are proved beyond a reasonable doubt:

First: That the person knowingly and willfully devised a scheme to defraud, or for obtaining money or property by means of false pretenses, representations or promises; and

Second: That the person knowingly transmitted or caused to be transmitted by wire in interstate commerce some sound for the purpose of executing the scheme to defraud.

It is not necessary that the Government prove all of the details concerning the precise nature and purpose of the scheme; or that the material transmitted by wire was itself false or fraudulent; or that the alleged scheme actually succeeded in defrauding anyone; or that the use of interstate wire communications facilities was intended as the specific or exclusive means of accomplishing the alleged fraud.

What must be proved is that the person knowingly and willfully devised or intended to devise a scheme to defraud; and that the use of the interstate wire communications facilities was closely related to the scheme because the person either wired something or caused it to be wired in interstate commerce in an attempt to execute or carry out the scheme.

To "cause" interstate wire facilities to be used is to do an act with knowledge that the use of the wires will follow in the ordinary course of business or where such use can reasonably be foreseen.

Each separate use of the interstate wire facilities in furtherance of a scheme to defraud constitutes a separate offense.

[Bucketlist2012]

Cliche's are so often used, but are often right...

How are you going to get Blood out of a Turnip ??? You are not...

Judgement Smudgement.... Big words... As people said, there is a cash flow problem, and the cash is gone...

I don't know anything about the vendor or any situations, but simple rules and cliche's apply here...

The horse is dead...Why is the horse still being hit ???

Again, I am a very Lucky man to have found the right shop and owner, the first time..

[Flash68]

Originally Posted by GregWeld

I will tell you that anyone that is talking "CLASS ACTION" lawsuits is just blowing smoke out their ass... It's obvious you HAVE NOT talked to an attorney... They are extremely difficult - need court approval and on and on... So while this "sounds good" it's just BS.

Sorry... but it had to be said.


If you need to a file suit -- just do it... don't talk about it.

You are right Greg. Lots on here talk a big game but have never been party to a real lawsuit.

It's easy to spew words on the internetz.

[RickM415]

well thats why I have B of A lol...you don't get your parts ..you call n they refund you your money in 24hrs ,hold it for investigation for like 90 days n if there is no response with any kind of real proof from the other party then you are all good,all that lawsuits and all that other stuff its just a waste of time ,u show up to the police station with a fraud complaint they gonna laugh at you n make u fill a paper that they will probably never investigate lol.bottom line its that when we buy a car part we aint trying to buy no sad story with it on why we aint getting our parts ...save that drama for your momma lol

[ProdigyCustoms]

Lets start with Doug 1, the OP. Doug was part of a group buy for seats I could not make happen. By the time he and others and I decided we could not wait out the GP, it was to old a transaction to refund to his card. (refunds can only be put back on cards sometime for 90 days, usually no longer then 180 days). Doug was patient and wanted to wait out the process as well as a couple others (who have been refunded already) and waiting put it went outside the boundaries of being able to refund to the card. We promised to send a check and as he mentioned he did not get it. However, before he posted this thread he was sent a check and should have that in his hand and in the bank.

No, the post did not make that happen, I did not even know about the post until Weds.

Anyway, Doug is a good guy who has been screwed to death this year.

[ProdigyCustoms]

So, there are 5 people complaining about us in this thread, and 3 of the 5 are more then a year, even 2 years old.

Doug1, the OP I addressed in the thread above

John510 is over a year old. His problems were 100% our fault, we admitted that in a thread he started and handled his issues. In the meantime he has had a vendetta against us. PMs potential customers, happy customers tell me about his PMs although when he realized he was tip toeing on torturous interference and slander that PM campaign does seem to have stopped. But he won't resist a opportunity like this.

Jknight is a good guy, unfortunatly he was caught in a shortage of TKO 600s I think 2 years ago? But we stayed in constant contact and got him everything he needed. However I suspect these types of thread make one rethink????????? For what it is worth, JKnights deal put me out of the Transmission kit business and made me find a supplier that could handle those orders. I realized it was way to hard to put the pieces of the puzzle toghether and found a supplier (s) i could let do what they do. I won't go into how hard that has been, but lets just say I do not sell transmission kits unless I have to.

Ratman, Ratman is in Columbia, South America. Moved his car, even talked to us about finishing the car. He and I discussed the BS issue, I never ran from responsibility, and the trail went cold. First I have heard about it in a year? His Vintage Air took a extended trip, not his fault. His threat of a thread is true however the unit was to arrive the next day so the thread threat was not the determining factor.

[ProdigyCustoms]

Originally Posted by greg5436

well since i just read thru all the posts i am going to tell you my latest BAD dealings with frank.back in july i saw frank had some deals on radiators and i ordered 2. they showed up with no problems. scott griffen started on a 69 camaro for me. i was talking to frank and he said let me take care of everything you need and assured me that he had his act together and could take care of it quick. i wired him 36,000 and told him i needed all the DSE parts first and everything for the chassis shop to get my car rolling.he said he ordered the parts the day i wired the money.2 weeks later i had not received anything and talked to DSE and said he had never placed the order. i knew i was in trouble right then.after a few calls my DSE parts started showing up.after going over the order 5 times. i could not believe someone could get so many things wrong.i also ordered Baer brake system with floater rear end.i talked to matt at moser in mid august and asked about the rear.he said there was no order for it yet. i told frank just send me the rear housing with the baer floater and DSE brackets installed i would wait on the axles and 3rd member later. he said the send out the rearend complete.3 months later the the rear shows up all unassembled and the wrong gear ratio. i went over the gear ratio 3 different times with frank and 2 times with matt at moser but didn't seem to do any good.in the meantime i had to buy a different rear end housing and a floater setup from GMR. then my calipers showed up and they were the wrong color. the guy at baer said send them back and he would exchange them. i sent them back and someone from UPS stole them before they arrived.what a nightmare,been shipping boxes for 30 years and never had a problem.the guy at baer took alot of time finding this package.i had sent it back in their original box with the Fedex label on the inside. i guess there was a lot of heat over this package that someone reversed the labels and gave it to fedex and it shipped back to me a month later. the man at baer figured this out. finally a happy ending on that story. there are 10 other things that i ordered and i had to call,e-mail and keep track of everything myself. i still don't have everything. if this is what you have to do to save some money i rather pay list price for everything and have it sitting in my garage.

i wish some of these large companies did not have a middle man and would sell at a fair price to all.i have been in the transmission business for 30 years and i don't have any middle men and i deal with over 150 shops and customers right off the street and it has worked for me.

people need to watch out for frank, he is not out to help you at all.
greg5436

And then there is Greg

This one may turn into a fight because I think Greg wants to. I will preface this with yes, we made some mistakes but not all is as stated.

And I do not owe Greg Any Parts as he says I do.

I will break this down a bit because half his issues are manufacturer related.

First off, I explained to Greg that I would send all the DSE stuff he need to get started (Which i have tracking shipped BEFORE the money even moved) and he DID recive that stuff immediatly (Mini tubs, connectors, stuff that needed to be welded in that was not heavy) and he knew that the subframe and Q Link were not going to be ready for a couple weeks. And that I was going to DSE to pick up 3 subframe, a couple Q Links and some other stuff for a stocking order and that I would grab his stuff while I was there. NO, there was not a order with his name at DSE, there was a order for multiple parts which after his call we verified. However after his freak out call to DSE, DSE and I agreed we would just break his stuff off and ship it right away as he was getting antsy. Which cost me way more for shipping, but whatever.

On the Moser, Greg got THE very first set of Baer Floaters on his rear that Moser had done. Greg knows there was HOURS of back and forth getting details so Moser could build the rear. And no, Matt at Moser did not have a "Order" (Purchase order details) because we was not sure what we was building. But as Greg stated he was in constant contact with Moser him self through the entire process. And Greg will have to say, even after reviewing with Me and Moser many times the gear ratio, Who covered all the cost of changing the gear.......Frank!

Greg's Nightmare with Baer and wrong parts is between he and Baer, however his mentioning it in his complaint about me makes it sound like I did something wrong. But in reality his Baer brakes were ordered before the money hit and Greg was privy to every email back and forth while we waited out the process.

There are other things on the list he did not mention, some went some, some did not. Some things definitely our fault, some definitely not.

I will take and accept the heat for what is our fault. Greg know how exorbitantly difficult some of this process was. And i am taking all the heat even for parts that was not my fault. but that seems to come with the territory

But if you have something is outstanding on this order Greg, please tell me, I need to know

[ProdigyCustoms]

OK, so there we have it. One original poster with a issue (now settled), and four issues 8 months to 2 years old which are all settled.

Yes I am aware there is another thread from someone wanting to find others for a Class Action suit. Good Luck on finding those people. It is not as wide spread as you might hope. And BTW, I refunded him his 100% refund for a set of headers that fit every other car on the planet but his. And am screwed for $700 on the deal. BUT, he is correct, I DID say I would refund him 100%. And no, accounting did not send it when I asked it be sent, long story there, not worth going into. But he has it on the way now. And for the record, he canceled his credit card so we COULD NOT post the credit back to the card. I won't fight it here, there is way more then 2 sides to the story.

And Class action suit? For what?

One of the reasons the other forums put this in a moderated forum is to keep this from festering. I know have customers calling wondering if were getting sued? For what? Check us out. Prodigy Customs has never been sued. has 1 Motor Vehicles compalint in 23 years and one BBB complaint. that is a pretty damn goo track record.

As for Prodigy? Again, last year sales grew again, up slightly more then 10% in spite of our move to the new facility we bought in March and losing almost 2 months business during the move.

And we did some 1700 orders, 1200 customers, 600 returning customers and 600 new. So 1700 orders and I pissed off a dozen people? Not great but things happen

And anyone worried about money? This is the wrong place to brag about money, but don't worry yourselves. Margins are up slightly also along with increased gross. Everything is just fine.

We are still 100% debt free except the mortgage on the home and the Building, no car payments, lease payments, credit card payments, I have a small Snap On bill is my only open credit. And we do not owe any suppliers one penny! And we spent deep into 6 figures cash on down stroke, our move, improvments. So it ain't money!

And I have to say, it blows my mind the way people jump on happy customers when they try to express their happiness with Prodigy on this forum. Pour Wes got molested and had to delete his post for trying to say he had a good experiance with us. Makes people afraid to say anything positive about us. I have 1180 HAPPY customers from last year!

There are plenty of angry Indians over here with no skin in the game at all. Many comments are from people with no experience with us. And some people with good experience even say they had good experience but go negative? (I had a good experiance but I won't deal with them anymore). WTF is that? It is the crazy-est thing.

Exactly why I did not already respond.

[Bucketlist2012]

Originally Posted by ProdigyCustoms

OK, so there we have it. One original poster with a issue (now settled), and four issues 8 months to 2 years old which are all settled.

Yes I am aware there is another thread from someone wanting to find others for a Class Action suit. Good Luck on finding those people. It is not as wide spread as you might hope. And BTW, I refunded him his 100% refund for a set of headers that fit every other car on the planet but his. And am screwed for $700 on the deal. BUT, he is correct, I DID say I would refund him 100%. And no, accounting did not send it when I asked it be sent, long story there, not worth going into. But he has it on the way now. And for the record, he canceled his credit card so we COULD NOT post the credit back to the card. I won't fight it here, there is way more then 2 sides to the story.

And Class action suit? For what?

One of the reasons the other forums put this in a moderated forum is to keep this from festering. I know have customers calling wondering if were getting sued? For what? Check us out. Prodigy Customs has never been sued. has 1 Motor Vehicles compalint in 23 years and one BBB complaint. that is a pretty damn goo track record.

As for Prodigy? Again, last year sales grew again, up slightly more then 10% in spite of our move to the new facility we bought in March and losing almost 2 months business during the move.

And we did some 1700 orders, 1200 customers, 600 returning customers and 600 new. So 1700 orders and I pissed off a dozen people? Not great but things happen

And anyone worried about money? This is the wrong place to brag about money, but don't worry yourselves. Margins are up slightly also along with increased gross. Everything is just fine.

We are still 100% debt free except the mortgage on the home and the Building, no car payments, lease payments, credit card payments, I have a small Snap On bill is my only open credit. And we do not owe any suppliers one penny! And we spent deep into 6 figures cash on down stroke, our move, improvments. So it ain't money!

And I have to say, it blows my mind the way people jump on happy customers when they try to express their happiness with Prodigy on this forum. Pour Wes got molested and had to delete his post for trying to say he had a good experiance with us. Makes people afraid to say anything positive about us. I have 1180 HAPPY customers from last year!

There are plenty of angry Indians over here with no skin in the game at all. Many comments are from people with no experience with us. And some people with good experience even say they had good experience but go negative? (I had a good experiance but I won't deal with them anymore). WTF is that? It is the crazy-est thing.

Exactly why I did not already respond.

Don't know you, but thanks for posting such a detailed answer. That is all i needed to see.. I hope all this Irons out soon.. You sound like you are on top of things, and your post should clear up some mis information....Thanks..

[camcojb]

Originally Posted by ProdigyCustoms

OK, so there we have it. One original poster with a issue (now settled), and four issues 8 months to 2 years old which are all settled.

Yes I am aware there is another thread from someone wanting to find others for a Class Action suit. Good Luck on finding those people. It is not as wide spread as you might hope. And BTW, I refunded him his 100% refund for a set of headers that fit every other car on the planet but his. And am screwed for $700 on the deal. BUT, he is correct, I DID say I would refund him 100%. And no, accounting did not send it when I asked it be sent, long story there, not worth going into. But he has it on the way now. And for the record, he canceled his credit card so we COULD NOT post the credit back to the card. I won't fight it here, there is way more then 2 sides to the story.

And Class action suit? For what?

One of the reasons the other forums put this in a moderated forum is to keep this from festering. I know have customers calling wondering if were getting sued? For what? Check us out. Prodigy Customs has never been sued. has 1 Motor Vehicles compalint in 23 years and one BBB complaint. that is a pretty damn goo track record.

As for Prodigy? Again, last year sales grew again, up slightly more then 10% in spite of our move to the new facility we bought in March and losing almost 2 months business during the move.

And we did some 1700 orders, 1200 customers, 600 returning customers and 600 new. So 1700 orders and I pissed off a dozen people? Not great but things happen

And anyone worried about money? This is the wrong place to brag about money, but don't worry yourselves. Margins are up slightly also along with increased gross. Everything is just fine.

We are still 100% debt free except the mortgage on the home and the Building, no car payments, lease payments, credit card payments, I have a small Snap On bill is my only open credit. And we do not owe any suppliers one penny! And we spent deep into 6 figures cash on down stroke, our move, improvments. So it ain't money!

And I have to say, it blows my mind the way people jump on happy customers when they try to express their happiness with Prodigy on this forum. Pour Wes got molested and had to delete his post for trying to say he had a good experiance with us. Makes people afraid to say anything positive about us. I have 1180 HAPPY customers from last year!

There are plenty of angry Indians over here with no skin in the game at all. Many comments are from people with no experience with us. And some people with good experience even say they had good experience but go negative? (I had a good experiance but I won't deal with them anymore). WTF is that? It is the crazy-est thing.

Exactly why I did not already respond.

Frank, I appreciate you coming on the site and addressing the problems. I do have a question, that although mentioned in many of these threads has never been answered by you to my knowledge.

Why do we have so many people who say that they've ordered and paid in full for parts and months later they have not even been ordered from the manufacturer?