...

Go Back   Lateral-g Forums > Lateral-G Open Discussions > Project Updates
User Name
Password



Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1021  
Old 06-22-2013, 09:25 PM
Flash68's Avatar
Flash68 Flash68 is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: NorCal
Posts: 9,180
Thanks: 58
Thanked 158 Times in 104 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FETorino View Post
Notice how sleek the Woodward shafts are compared to the typical Borgenson stuff.
Well ain't you fancy.
__________________
2004 NASA AIX Mustang LS2 #14
1964 Lincoln Continental
2014 4 tap Keezer
  #1022  
Old 06-22-2013, 09:28 PM
FETorino's Avatar
FETorino FETorino is offline
Lateral-g Supporting Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Southern CA
Posts: 2,723
Thanks: 59
Thanked 63 Times in 21 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flash68 View Post
Well ain't you fancy.
I know you're already shopping for them....
__________________
Rob in SoCal

https://lateral-g.net/forums/show...10645&page=171

  #1023  
Old 06-22-2013, 10:22 PM
GregWeld's Avatar
GregWeld GregWeld is offline
Lateral-g Supporting Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Scottsdale, AriDzona
Posts: 20,741
Thanks: 504
Thanked 1,080 Times in 388 Posts
Default

Never weld a steering shaft....


I think I read why somewhere but damned if I can remember.


Please do some research before doing that.
  #1024  
Old 06-22-2013, 10:32 PM
GregWeld's Avatar
GregWeld GregWeld is offline
Lateral-g Supporting Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Scottsdale, AriDzona
Posts: 20,741
Thanks: 504
Thanked 1,080 Times in 388 Posts
Default

Read page #8 of the Woodward catalog.....
  #1025  
Old 06-22-2013, 10:44 PM
FETorino's Avatar
FETorino FETorino is offline
Lateral-g Supporting Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Southern CA
Posts: 2,723
Thanks: 59
Thanked 63 Times in 21 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GregWeld View Post
Read page #8 of the Woodward catalog.....
I have

So how then does one install the splined plug ends into a steering shaft? One of us is reading something different. I think it is you. Of course I always think I'm right until somebody slaps some sense into me. It is a good topic for discussion.

http://woodwardsteering.com/images/s...l%20joints.pdf

Double-splined U-joints:
In all but entry-level classes, the time-honored practice of welding
universal joints directly to the steering tubing is gradually being
phased out. ST201 weld-in splined stubs allow the use of double-splined,
completely removable u-joints. The stubs are solid, and unlike a splined
piece of tubing they cannot be crushed by the set screws. The slight extra
cost of stubs and double-splined joints is almost insignificant compared
with the time and effort which must otherwise be invested in welding
u-joints, removing welded u-joints with a torch or hand grinder, or trying
to modify a steering shaft whose joints have been welded.
U-joints can undergo distortion if they are heat-soaked during a
time-consuming welding process, and excessive heat will draw the temper
of the needle bearings. Weld-in stubs contain no moving parts and
are virtually immune to damage other than spatter. A guide to welding
these parts appears on page 8.


Welding U-joints and Stubs to Steering Shafts
While it has become obvious over many years that universal joints can be welded to shafts with a high degree of reliability, some procedures
are detrimental to the u-joint and must be avoided. Plug or rosette welds on universal joints are virtually guaranteed to shorten the life of the bearings
from both direct heat and the distortion resulting from weld contraction in proximity to the bearing bores. Even if the bearings are removed first,
this distortion will cause enough ovality and misalignment to damage both the bearings and the trunnion journals when reinstalling. In any case,
the cross section of a circumferential weld joint is comfortably larger than that of a tubular steering shaft, and any additional welding in the form of
plugs or rosettes would be entirely superfluous.
In general, any welding procedure which consumes enough time to discolor the ears of the u-joint should be assumed to have drawn the temper
of the bearings. This does not necessarily disqualify the TIG process, but TIG does tend to be fairly slow. To avoid heat-soaking the joint when
TIG welding, use a high-strength, non-cracking filler rod such as 309 stainless and keep the cross-section small. The most practical method is MIG,
as a comfortably large weld can be made in a few seconds. ER80S-D2 wire using C-25 shielding gas will give excellent results for both strength and
appearance.
The obvious disadvantage of any welding is, of course, that once you’ve welded the u-joints they cannot be removed without resorting to a
torch, saw, or angle grinder. A mechanical connection, on the other hand, carries the great convenience of being removable for inspection or replacement.
Welding splined stubs into the steering tube is no more work than welding u-joints directly to it. However, by confining the welding to the
tube, potential heat damage to the u-joint bearings is eliminated. A full-penetration circumferential weld of the stub to the tube will transmit steering
torque as effectively as the tube itself, and is not difficult.
With a weld-in stub, plug or rosette welds can be added if desired. If so,
use two; these should be as directly opposite each other as possible to equalize
the inevitable distortion. The pilot of the splined stub is made a few thousandths
oversize to ensure a tight fit in the expected ID of a .120 wall tube. File the pilot
if necessary until it fits the tube snugly. A heavy driven fit is unnecessary and
will restrain the weld joint. Leave a 1/8” gap at the root of the weld to ensure
penetration. For the circumferential weld, a couple of hot MIG passes (use a rolling
fixture if you can) will get the job done before any significant distortion can set in.
Although a steering shaft is not a high-speed rotating assembly, straightness
is still a practical goal. If you prefer TIG welding, excellent results will be
obtained using 309 stainless steel filler rod as above. However, keep in mind that
TIG is relatively slow; the slower the welding process, the more your finished
job is likely to deviate from straight. Postheat to a faint red and let cool in air
(Note: don’t postheat a universal joint).
__________________
Rob in SoCal

https://lateral-g.net/forums/show...10645&page=171

  #1026  
Old 06-23-2013, 07:38 AM
GregWeld's Avatar
GregWeld GregWeld is offline
Lateral-g Supporting Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Scottsdale, AriDzona
Posts: 20,741
Thanks: 504
Thanked 1,080 Times in 388 Posts
Default

The plug ends are okay to weld --- it's the knuckles that you don't weld...
and that's what the picture you posted was of. So thought you wanted to weld them to your steering shaft.
  #1027  
Old 06-23-2013, 07:47 AM
Ron in SoCal's Avatar
Ron in SoCal Ron in SoCal is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 5,044
Thanks: 6
Thanked 9 Times in 6 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flash68 View Post
Well ain't you fancy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FETorino View Post
I know you're already shopping for them....
That rug would make a lovely addition in DG's family room too
__________________
Ron in SoCal
69 Camaro in progress
https://lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=31246

  #1028  
Old 06-23-2013, 08:23 AM
fleetus macmullitz's Avatar
fleetus macmullitz fleetus macmullitz is online now
Lateral-g Supporting Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: On Lake Ontario in NY
Posts: 10,999
Thanks: 3,236
Thanked 3,314 Times in 1,977 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron in SoCal View Post
That rug would make a lovely addition in DG's family room too

Or for your 'wheel room'?


__________________
Skip
  #1029  
Old 06-23-2013, 08:47 AM
GregWeld's Avatar
GregWeld GregWeld is offline
Lateral-g Supporting Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Scottsdale, AriDzona
Posts: 20,741
Thanks: 504
Thanked 1,080 Times in 388 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GregWeld View Post
Never weld a steering shaft....


I think I read why somewhere but damned if I can remember.


Please do some research before doing that.


I should have said a STEERING KNUCKLE not shaft --- I was thinking you wanted to weld the knuckle TO the shaft....
  #1030  
Old 06-23-2013, 10:36 AM
FETorino's Avatar
FETorino FETorino is offline
Lateral-g Supporting Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Southern CA
Posts: 2,723
Thanks: 59
Thanked 63 Times in 21 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GregWeld View Post
I should have said a STEERING KNUCKLE not shaft --- I was thinking you wanted to weld the knuckle TO the shaft....
Aren't we glad we all agree

I agree that although Woodward sell a weld on U joint using one isn't the best idea. That is why after researching it I bought the weld in splined ends from Woodward.

The completed splined end shaft on mine is light and strong and makes for easy servicing of the U joints in the future....

and of course controversy and a little drama which is what my thread is usually about.

The good thing about this forum and anybody's build thread is the chance to exchange ideas, learn from each other and point people to specialists like Woodward.

In this particular case "Knuckles" has added a new element I can use in his build threads replacing Intros which has run it's course.

Don't feel bad GW. When I bought my ATL fuel cell I was convinced I could run a Y fitting from both duck foot pickups to my main 10an line to my pump. Of all people, DG found out that was a bad idea and sent me of to ask ATL directly. I guess he knows more about fuel delivery than motor choice.

Now DG is free to shop for some race car u joints.

__________________
Rob in SoCal

https://lateral-g.net/forums/show...10645&page=171

Closed Thread


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:06 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright Lateral-g.net