78 Trans Am at Fletcher's Customs!! "Project TTTA", Pro touring, back halfed, C6

[Doug1]

I haven't thrown in the towel though I was tempted. I can do the vast majority of the work myself, which should help recoup some of the money I have lost in the project to the experts.

I'm no TIG welder so the best I can do is tack the pieces where I need them and then have a certified welder do the real welding.


syborg tt - Dan is one hell of a craftsman. I wish I had taken it to him to begin with but by the time it got to him it was too late. Between what I had already spent and the cost of him taking it apart to get back to where he could begin on his own, I decided to wait until I could take him another project he could start on with a clean slate.

[Doug1]

I felt comfortable that you would have built a nice car Chad. I never expected it to be in the craftsmanship league Dan is in but more in the way of functional but cool. And as I told you, I know that family has to come first. I was in my own personal purgatory for the last two and a half years with my 2nd wife's mental illness resulting from a stroke 6 months after we were married. It certainly made me reprioritize and grow in ways I could have never anticipated. Life can change drastically in an instant and the only two options are to adapt or don't.

I'll make the best of it and think it was worth Dan having a look at it because it made me see some things I want to do differently that are within my reach. I understand that he would want to blow it apart and start over because in the end it would be coming out of his shop and even his welds are a work of art. I'd like to have him build a car for me but after meeting with him and thinking it over, I would rather it be a fresh project.

[preston]

I wouldn't get quite so discouraged - I think you have the foundation for an awesome car here. I know the engine setback will cause you problems but that is part of what is awesome. I set back the engine in my '67 Mustang 14" and Marty is right, I can barely fit a heater box in there, but if you must have AC you can always run a trunk unit. I know it can be a little discouraging with that frame sitting there rusting away and the parts half assembled. Personally I would teach yourself to weld to your satisfaction and get to work. I've built 3 cars from the ground up scratch built frame all self taught so if I can do it so can you. Don't let the TIG pussies intimidate you , just grab a MIG and practice a bit. The only factor that will really stop you is available free time. Hell, whatever, do it how you want but your setup is far from hopeless IMO, especially if you cut loose from some of the expectations that this site can create in all of our heads. 98% of the people who see the car will never know that the frame has some round tube that doesn't match the square tube for instance. I dont' see anything in your setup that looks like a showstopper to me, just make sure as you put it toghether with that big engine setbakc that you figure out your pedals early in the process.
I will admit though one thing that made my big engine setback possible was running the pipes down the rockers (and setting the driver back 10"), tough to make them fit in the trans tunnel and have any room for pedals.

[ironworks]

I think I would move the engine back up to a somewhat factory position. This will allow you to use a lot of factory or manufactured parts. This will save you a ton of coin in custom parts and labor to fabricate to make all that work. Let alone the ability to work on the car easily. All for just some better weight distribution. You could full a full tank of fuel to help compensate for the added front weight. Lord knows the car is built pretty heavy from the get go.

I agree with Dan making a removable frame would be slick, but trying to make the floor strong enough to make that work well will take quite a bit of work. I think I would just powder coat the chassis you have and build a floor to go over it and move forward learning your lessons for you next build.

I think this build gives a classic example of why using a guy that does this work for living with a nice resume of completed cars is a solid reason why those guys cost more. Guys who work at home can do great work for cheaper. But things are more likely to come up in the life of the part time hot rod builder (kids, job transfer, divorce, etc ) and these things become the problem of the customer who went out on a lib trusting the builder who no fault or fault will not be able to complete the project.

I see this issue almost daily now in the current state of our economy. A guy goes to a lesser known or novice builder trying to save some dough, but has the best of hope and trust in a guy who for what ever reason cannot deliver. Guys wind up spending 2-3 times more money in the end when they should have just gone to the guy they thought they could not afford, but wanted to save some dough. These projects end up sold for pennies on the dollar or just project that will never ever be what the customer really dreamed they would be.

[Doug1]

Originally Posted by syborg tt

Morning Doug,
I really likes Dan's idea of a full frame car. I would consider a chassis from the Roadster shop as they already have one ready to go and debugged !!.

I am not sure why you stuff the motor back so far. It is going to cause you another world of problems. Foot well space will be sparce at best. Unless this is a dedicated race car. Your going to have problems putting a radio, air or heat in the car.

I appreciate the advice. Since this one is already this far along and the front and rear clips were both designed by AME, making it a full frame should be no big deal. It will still have the 3 and 4 links setup which makes it somewhat unique so I'm just going to run with it. We'll get it done and put this one in the books. Hopefully there were be other's to follow!

Originally Posted by ironworks

I think this build gives a classic example of why using a guy that does this work for living with a nice resume of completed cars is a solid reason why those guys cost more. .

Sadly, this started out with people who do this for a living and have a nice resume of completed cars. I wan't looking to skimp and I thought I had picked a strong builder to begin with. When it got moved to Chad, I realized I was going from a much larger operation to a smaller shop but that was the appeal at the time because it was the primary project for them.

I'll get it done. I'm going to continue the course on this build. Here is a link to one that has a very similar setup so the roadmap is already there. I am using. It turns out they set their engine back exactly the same amount. So with pics of the fab work, one of the local race car fab shops should be able to fab the interior sheetmetal.

I don't plan on using the floor to support the body. Using the current setup and making the few mods I mentioned, it should bolt right to the rockers in 4 places, the factory front mounts and the rear factory bolt location for the bumper.

http://www.pro-touring.com/showthrea...78263-trans-am]

[Doug1]

Need some of you guys to let me know your thoughts on this plan to mount the body to the frame.

First we'll replace the bolt in subframe connectors that Chad made with something more substancial and made of the same tubing as the front and rear clips.

The front factory frame bolt locations will still be used. In place of the front frame floor pan bolts, we'll keep the setup already installed by Chad which bolts the side of the frame rail to the rocker. This tie in is encircled within the small blue oval in the picture below. These were welded to the metal plate that was installed along the length of the rocker.


Then we'll cut the frame loose from the body in the only other point it is welded in, which is where the cross member hits the rockers. See area circled in red in the picture blow.

I'll put plates on the ends of the frame crossmember and matching plates in the rockers and have it bolt in there.

Then we'll cut the fuel cell "cage" that was fabricated loose and move it forward a few inches in order to trim the rear frame rails to the proper length and move the cross rail back so it can sit behind the tail panel without interfering with the bumper mounts as it does now.


Once these are located properly, I'll put end plates in place with bolt holes that will allow the endplates, body and bumper supports to all be held together with the same 4 bolts on each side.

[syborg tt]

Originally Posted by Doug1

I'll get it done. I'm going to continue the course on this build. Here is a link to one that has a very similar setup so the roadmap is already there. I am using

http://www.pro-touring.com/showthrea...78263-trans-am

Doug,

I like the way that car turned out.

Okay so you have an Art Morrison Chassis - Awesome it's a great set up. I completely agree with Rodger ( yes Roger I said that ). Move the engine back up there is no need for it to be set back that far unless it is a dedicated track car. To much custom one-off fab work. I've been there and trust me in the end it's a waste of money.

My current project is the exact opposite of my last project. No Turbo's, No custom sheet metal fab work, A stock firewall with a very nice DSE close-out panel.

I've learned it's all in the details, you don't have to have the biggest baddest motor, suspension, bla bla bla. Build it so you can drive it and enjoy it

[ELVIS_PRESLEY]

Originally Posted by Doug1

We now have the rendering. Ben did a great job as usual.

F'n rad man!

[GregWeld]

I just want to post in this thread so I can track it!

But have to say Doug --- when I first saw the "build" being posted... all I could see was "hackie motto". Doing the kind of work you took on (the builder) took on -- that's way more involved than the average guy is capable of. What I saw was too much overhead.... as in -- the builder was in way over his head!

Glad to see you're sticking with it... make it fun... make it a good learning experience... and then drive the heck out of it!

[DOOM]

Doug.... Just keep going forward and build THAT car!!!!