What would a USCA pro-touring class look like??

[GrabberGT]

Originally Posted by 71RS/SS396

Chris, have you ever been in a truly fast car on a big road course, not the little infield course we ran at TMS? I'm talking somewhere like Vir or Road America.
I bet if I put a stock seat and a 3 point belt in the passenger side and took out at Vir you wouldn't be able to stay in the seat.

You'll get no argument out of me on this. I fully agree. The point is, if all you have is a stock seat and 3 point belts, should you be allowed to go fast enough to get thrown out of the seat? That person showed up to the event to hang out, have a good time, and compete in a "Streetcar" event. This car is more Streetcar than the DSE White Monster Camaro but doesnt stand a chance against it. There's a 25 point spread allocated to the top so many cars for speed. If youre out of that range you get 1 point. Maybe we should award the points for the racing the same as the Style and Design event. Give 15 points for just for crossing the start/finish line and a possible 10 more based on how fast you can go. If the streetcar is not allowed to compete at the speeds of the Monster Camaro, should it be judged in the same group?

For the record, I have 6-point harness, seats, and plans to eventually add a roll bar. I still dont plan to drive 150 but at least I'll feel better about driving 100ish on a road course.

[71RS/SS396]

Originally Posted by GrabberGT

You'll get no argument out of me on this. I fully agree. The point is, if all you have is a stock seat and 3 point belts, should you be allowed to go fast enough to get thrown out of the seat? That person showed up to the event to hang out, have a good time, and compete in a "Streetcar" event. This car is more Streetcar than the DSE White Monster Camaro but doesnt stand a chance against it. There's a 25 point spread allocated to the top so many cars for speed. If youre out of that range you get 1 point. Maybe we should award the points for the racing the same as the Style and Design event. Give 15 points for just for crossing the start/finish line and a possible 10 more based on how fast you can go. If the streetcar is not allowed to compete at the speeds of the Monster Camaro, should it be judged in the same group?

For the record, I have 6-point harness, seats, and plans to eventually add a roll bar. I still dont plan to drive 150 but at least I'll feel better about driving 100ish on a road course.

Last I checked this is a driving competition, right? If it wasn't then there wouldn't be 3 out of the 5 segments being performance based.
Some of what you've suggested penalizes a car with proper safety equipment in the name of what an opinion of a street car should be. Everyone has a tolerance level for what they want to put up with for extended driving.
I'm 100% against penalizing a car for safety related equipment, diluting the competition by giving the guy with the 3 point belt extra credit as a street car could chase away the properly prepared cars and then will it truly be the Ultimate Street Car?

[GregWeld]

Originally Posted by 71RS/SS396

Chris, have you ever been in a truly fast car on a big road course, not the little infield course we ran at TMS? I'm talking somewhere like Vir or Road America.
I bet if I put a stock seat and a 3 point belt in the passenger side and took out at Vir you wouldn't be able to stay in the seat.

TOTALLY AGREE!!!!

[Ron in SoCal]

Originally Posted by Ron in SoCal

I don't disagree with your post above Chris, but I would not want to see an incentive for 3 point belts. The road course speeds are a bit hairy.

Keep going fellas. I love the discussion.

Glad you guys finally caught up

[71RS/SS396]

Originally Posted by Ron in SoCal

Glad you guys finally caught up

Anyone ever tell you that self quoting is like speaking about yourself in the third person?

[GregWeld]

Originally Posted by 71RS/SS396

Anyone ever tell you that self quoting is like speaking about yourself in the third person?

It's kinda like a Self Selfie... or photobombing your own photo?!?! LOL

[Ron in SoCal]

Yep. Pretty lame. Good thing I'm not a pro athlete ...

As Dave would say, "Next."

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Originally Posted by James OLC

That is possible one of the most important contributions to this conversation. Nothing will hurt the series more than penalizing competitors for safety in order to satisfy spectators desire to prove how much of a street car these are.

At the end of the day we are out there driving running in these events because we want to - not because we have to - and we are pushing our cars, and ourselves, to satisfy our own desire to challenge ourselves and enjoy our car. Folks are not going to go that if they do not feel safe. There was a fair bit of talk at SEMA about the need for MORE safety equipment in the faster cars and how to ensure that we can all have fun, put on a good show, and be safe. For non-competitors to suggest that faster (or any) drivers should somehow put themselves at risk to be more "stock" is unrealistic and unfair.

I think its time to lose the term Street car all together. We are starting to see the birth of Strace cars. Street legal Race cars. Lets not kid ourselves.

I remember when 700HP was a hard to reach goals, now its the norm.

[GrabberGT]

Originally Posted by Vince@MSperfab

I think its time to lose the term Street car all together. We are starting to see the birth of Strace cars. Street legal Race cars. Lets not kid ourselves.

I remember when 700HP was a hard to reach goals, now its the norm.

Well dont leave us hanging. Exactly how will this new class be defined. We expect to see a definitive line drawn between the 2 categories. This will allow is to properly debate how it will be scored to give the "Stow" (street show) cars a fighting chance.


The more we talk about it, the more I find myself thinking of Rons idea of an Unlimited class. AKA Strace Car.

[GregWeld]

Originally Posted by GrabberGT

Well dont leave us hanging. Exactly how will this new class be defined. We expect to see a definitive line drawn between the 2 categories. This will allow is to properly debate how it will be scored to give the "Stow" (street show) cars a fighting chance.


The more we talk about it, the more I find myself thinking of Rons idea of an Unlimited class. AKA Strace Car.

Street/Race Cars unlimited and "all others"?? This gives you two classes... but would you still want to see an overall winner? That to me is where this class issue begins to breaks down. Hard to have "a" winner that anyone would be okay with... The discussion starts to come full circle in a us against them... because "we" can't win. "We" being Pro Touring.

Pro-Touring just isn't a large enough audience. They (USCA) struggled at every event to fill the spaces required. And as far as selling the TV show... the PT crowd just isn't all that well known (yet) or followed except by "us". WE think it's the greatest thing ever... But "We" are a few thousand people....

Don't get me wrong.... I have two race cars that I'd love to be able to run at these events. So I'd be happy to see a full on race car class - but then that's just selfish and has nothing to do with these events (which I've traveled 1000's of miles to support, since day one, without ever having a car in any of them).


My personal feeling is -- once you have definitions and classes... those with the skills / bank / desire - will find a way to trump all of the written rules... And what will that lead to? More expensive builds - cutting out more and more people that can't "compete". Then this whole thing would be super boring.