69 Camaro front subframe questions

[TT LS2]

Originally Posted by lil427z

i have the martz , dse , in my camaros they both work well . if i were to do it all over again i would go with jeff schwartz full frame . but all make good frames.
rick k

+1
Andy Martz is a really cool guy to deal with! That alone is priceless. There are several companies that offer frames but how many of them have EXCELLENT customer service? I shopped around for a long time and made several calls to all of the makers and must admit, Andy Martz was the most helpful, patient, knowledgeable, fair person of them all. He never once talked bad about his competitors! All in all, he's a classy guy/businessman/fabricator!

[awr68]

Good to hear! FWIW, I've had the same experiance with DSE and AME.

[DOOM]

Originally Posted by awr68

Well sadly that is kinda like asking what cola you prefer. Coke, Pepsi, RC.

Frame wise do you like the OE look of the DSE, or the fabed look of the others? Do you want GM control arms or custom? Why do you want an aftermarket frame? I guess we need to know what your thoughts, plans, and budget is first before we can help.

With that said, DSE, AME, 21st, ST, WD (if you can find a used one) all make nice stuff! Or if you want to upgrade the stock frame DSE and or ATS have kits for that too.

Have you done a search in this forum? There has been lots of talk on this exact topic. One things for sure, we love to help people spend there money!!

Oh, and Mario thanks for joining the site and asking for help!

Thanx Anthony
Well to answer your questions. I will spare no expense to make this care perfect. The budget is whatever it takes to do this.One of the thing that I read on one of the posts, you can only run a surtain offset wheel on some of these frames. I plan on putting 19's on this car and I like my wheels to have some dish. Now can I do this with one subframe and not another I do'nt know.This is one question. I want to go as big as I can up front with these 19's. Can I run 19's at all up front without doing major mods to the wells,is another question. I know how I want this car to look (STANCE) low.I will be listening to all input. I'm not one of these people that ask questions and advise and do the exact opposite!!I'm on this forum for a reason,and thats to learn. And from what I've read and seen I think I'm in good hands.I will be doing 99.99% of this project myself ,I own my own collision shop.I just need to get the best advise to get me in the right direction!!!
Thanx Mario

[ProdigyCustoms]

Mario, A lot of the "lip" on the wheel will depend greatly on brake choice / caliper clearance, and also the way the wheel is built. We just finished this car with 19s fromt and rear, and got plenty of lip. As I said, if you want to discuss, feel free to call.

[DOOM]

Originally Posted by ProdigyCustoms

Mario, A lot of the "lip" on the wheel will depend greatly on brake choice / caliper clearance, and also the way the wheel is built. We just finished this car with 19s fromt and rear, and got plenty of lip. As I said, if you want to discuss, feel free to call.

Frank
Thats exactly what I'm looking for dish wise front and back!!!!Again this is why I'm here. I PMend you I'll be talking to you soon.
Mario

[David Pozzi]

I'd rate the DSE, Morrison, and perhaps the Alston subs as my favorites.
Some of the others I'm not that familiar with such as the 21st Century or Schwartz.
I feel the Martz sub is too light and weak torsionally for good handling. It may drive well under light loads, but if hard cornering is important, you would have to brace it, and/or tie it into a full roll cage structure. I have exchanged a few emails and forum posts with them and hope they will beef up their Pro-Touring sub. They seem like very nice people.

Most good subs (torsionally) are not much lighter than stock, I'm talking about the bare sub which on a Camaro is 110 lbs. Some weight is saved by using a rack and pinion, Aluminum or tube A arms, spindles or brakes.

As an example, a Camaro lower control arm is 11 lbs, so how much weight is there to save? Corvette aluminum arms and spindle will save weight, but steel components are going to be very close in weight to stock. Speed Tech, Global West A arms are as heavy as stock A arms, maybe even a bit more. I'm not saying you can't save weight, but only a little can be saved from the actual sub, the rest is either steering or in the spindle and brake assemblies. The stock cast iron hub and rotor plus caliper is where a lot of the weight is.
David

Here's some added info:
FIRST GEN CAMARO SUBFRAME WEIGHT additon list POWER STEERING
Bare sub 110
knuckle assys (stock single piston disc) 92
springs 22
A arms - upper 20
A arms - lower 22
Shocks 6
Ctr link and tie rods 17
Trans Crossmember 10
Sub total 299

PS box, hoses, pump, pitman 44
TOTAL 343
=============================================
FIRST GEN CAMARO SUBFRAME WEIGHT additon list MANUAL STEERING
Bare sub 110
knuckle assys (stock single piston disc) 92
springs 22
A arms - upper 20
A arms - lower 22
Shocks 6
Ctr link idler and tie rods 17
Trans Crossmember 10
Sub total 299

man steering box with pitman 16.5
TOTAL 315.5

subframe post
http://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20801

[comp-spec]

Originally Posted by ProdigyCustoms

Mario, A lot of the "lip" on the wheel will depend greatly on brake choice / caliper clearance, and also the way the wheel is built. We just finished this car with 19s fromt and rear, and got plenty of lip. As I said, if you want to discuss, feel free to call.

Frank
Awesome car looks badasss
I like this bird alot

[comp-spec]

Originally Posted by DOOM

Thanx Anthony
Well to answer your questions. I will spare no expense to make this care perfect. The budget is whatever it takes to do this.One of the thing that I read on one of the posts, you can only run a surtain offset wheel on some of these frames. I plan on putting 19's on this car and I like my wheels to have some dish. Now can I do this with one subframe and not another I do'nt know.This is one question. I want to go as big as I can up front with these 19's. Can I run 19's at all up front without doing major mods to the wells,is another question. I know how I want this car to look (STANCE) low.I will be listening to all input. I'm not one of these people that ask questions and advise and do the exact opposite!!I'm on this forum for a reason,and thats to learn. And from what I've read and seen I think I'm in good hands.I will be doing 99.99% of this project myself ,I own my own collision shop.I just need to get the best advise to get me in the right direction!!!
Thanx Mario

DOOM
Definitely give Frank a call he knows alot about this and he'll get the right one for you. No expense spared has of right now I think its Art Morrison or DSE HANDS DOWN good luck picking its hard to decide

[awr68]

Frank was that car at SEMA!?!?!?!?! j/k!! Love Lisa's car!!!!

[TT LS2]

Originally Posted by ProdigyCustoms

Mario, A lot of the "lip" on the wheel will depend greatly on brake choice / caliper clearance, and also the way the wheel is built. We just finished this car with 19s fromt and rear, and got plenty of lip. As I said, if you want to discuss, feel free to call.

What is the off-set and wheel sizing on the bird? It looks great! What type of rear suspension does it have also, if you don't mind me asking?!?!?!?