1970 Firebird suggestions

[70Firbird]

Very nice interior! I'm missing my carpet, I tore it out cuz it was all tattered. Passenger seat has a rip, driver seat has a seat cover. Amazingly my headliner and everything is still in good condition, but there's a lot of work to be done. Where did you find all your interior pieces such as your center console? I'm not sure if I want to lower it, but why not mini tub it? I would think that would be the only way to go with the amount of power I'd like to put down (shafiroff motor). Would an aftermarket subframe be more straight line oriented? Any reason why you chose to keep the stock subframe?

btw I really like your side exhaust... Mine is an Espirit as well, the hood on my car used to be an original formula hood that i cut to look better. I didn't like the way the vents bent forward like a retarded duck. what kind of motor are you running?

[Marcus SC&C]

Cool cars and `70 is my favorite year. I should never have sold my `70 RAIII Formula 400 (or the 7 other 2nd Gens I`ve had...). Oh well...
These cars are a big step ahead of the earlier generation F cars in handling and drivability. Their bumpsteer is comparable overall with a 2002 and their geometry isn`t too bad at all,just too mild. They respond very well to a more performance oriented alignment too.
First step make sure all the boring,normal stuff is in good shape. Subframe bushings,tie rod ends,etc. and bring them up to par.
Next subframe connectors. Solid subframe bushings are also a good idea.
Now springs and shocks. Matched front and rear springs from a reputable company OR make the decision to upgrade the rear leafs to a link/coil over conversion like the excellent Alston G-Bar. Don`t skimp on the shocks! I know it`s tempting but don`t do it! At least stock replacement Bilsteins of Konis for a "driving around car" and adj. Varishock aluminum shocks are a real nice upgrade if the budget allows. Good shocks are worth every penny and more.
Geometry and alignment, the stock geometry is okay but very mild. A StreetComp Stage 1 package really punches up the geometry as well as allowing for a lot more alignment adjustment. We have guys pulling over 1G at less than 2* of body roll (on DOT tires) with StreetComp equipped 2nd gens! Dial it all in with a good alignment,shoot for -1/2* camber and +5.5* caster. 1/8" total toe in or 1/16" if you like the car a little more responsive.
Last step,tune with swaybars. With good front geometry a huge front bar isn`t necessary for a street car. If the car pushed a little try a rear bar. If it`s loose try a larger front one. Don`t spend money on bars until the car`s together in it`s more of less final configuration. You can`t tune what you haven`t driven yet.
Bells and whistles,these are mostly tuning aids and misc. cool stuff. Front coil overs,a custom Lee steering box,tubular lower A arms, underhood bracing etc. If you choose well they can really enhance the performance and give you more tuning options but get the big stuff done first and you`ll be better off unless you can afford to do a whole bunch of stuff all at once.
If you have any other questions go ahead and give us a call and take advantage of our free "Suspension Counseling Service". Mark SC&C

[NOT A TA]

My interior was red when I got my car and I like the old school black vinyl look so I changed the interior color. My console came in the car(with the standard issue cigarette burn holes) and I repaired it with a vinyl repair kit from The Eastwood Co. before dying it with S.E.M. vinyl dye (I have mixed atmy local paint shop) shot with a jamb gun.

Sure mini tub it! I was just warning you not to try to go too wide with the tires without doing the tubs since you said you'd be carrying a full load of people. I get away with 315's in the rear without any mods at all but if I carried 4 adults and extra weight I'd probably cut the tires on the fender lip.

As far as suspension Mark pretty much nailed that. I wish I'd done solid body mounts instead of the polys and weld in connectors instead of the bolt in ones. I'll change them both eventually but for now the car works fine and I'll spend the money on entry fees!

I'm taking my car in to get the front end realigned in the morning. When I replaced all of the steering and suspension parts I used the recommendations from Hotchkis for the settings when using their springs, sways etc. and I'm wearing out the outside edges of the front tires using the car on road courses. I think maybe the camber isn't right but I'm no front end guru. I'm gonna have the front set up with Marks specs and try them out since he was kind enough to post them.

The engine in my car is a Pontiac 400 I pulled from a GTO clone build that burned up I bought and parted out a couple years ago. '75 block, '68#16 heads,Canton RR pan, MSD pro billet W/6A box & Blaster 2, Speed Demon on Edelbrock fed by Holley Blue, Flowkooler pump,Performance Products balancer. Nothing really powerfull or exotic just solid reliable performance. I use a 2.41 rear for high speed stuff and a 3.73 for drags and short stuff and have a couple different sets of wheels/tires.

I like your scoop chop! It'll give your car a different look.

[70Firbird]

NOT A TA: are you planning on eventually switching motors or you gonna stick with your 400?

Marcus: Thanks for the advice. How much would you estimate all the parts to be? I'd like to change all the bushings along with anything that is subject to wear and tear. I'd also def want to get rid of the rear leafs etc. New shocks, springs/coils, streetcomp kit, as well as a mini tub kit? Whatever you would recommend. Give me a couple package combinations to look at. I'm a very performance oriented guy, but I don't want to over do it and completely trash any comfort since this will be a daily. I'm also planning to run tires with a little thicker profile for a more old school rally look at the same time absorbing most bumps on the road.

[NOT A TA]

I'll be running the 400 thats in it for a while unless I break it. I'll be getting a bigger carb, bigger exhaust manifolds, and electric exhaust cutouts before putting it back on the chassis dyno to adjust the distributor curve and carb settings by using oxygen sensors in the new sections of exhaust tubing before the sidepipes.

I promised myself I wouldn't make the car a lot faster till I address safety issues. So no big power for now. I'm going to buy/install an oil pressure fuel pump shutoff for the elec pump, full cage, Kirkey seat, new Harnesses, door net, Fire system, Fire suit and get a Hans device for my Aria helmet.

I got warnings at the ECTA and NASA events about going fast without much safety equipment. The ECTA will only let you run 135 MPH without at least a rollbar(go over 140 and they throw you out till you come back with one) and NASA tech officials gave me a "chat" about running around 150 on the back straight at Road Atlanta without a bar/cage etc.

Those 160 speedos in the early 2nd gens are way off at high speeds just so you know. With stock tire height, original trans and rear gears if the speedo was reading 160-165 it was recorded at 134-137 through the timing traps at the ECTA.

[70Firbird]

My speedo is opposite actually. It says im doing 60 when i'm actually doing 80. I need to add about 1/3 on top of whatever speed it says. So I take it you built your car for track purposes?

[NOT A TA]

Someone may have changed the trans(from a car with a different rear ratio) or the rear, or put a taller wheel/tire combo on your car that changed the overall rear ratio.

I started in the early 90's with the idea of painting the car with a more "modern" look which evolved into what it is today. I drive it on the street, drags (mostly group rental days and test and tunes), Road tracks for HPDE events (now in NASA HPDE 2), and ran the ECTA (will go back with safety equipment to run 175), and future plans look toward open road time trials like the Silver State Challenge.

I'd like to run a verified 200 MPH eventually but it'll take a lot more power to get there as well as some aerodynamic wind tunnel testing. I've got some front end body mods in mind which include a bigger front spoiler W/splitter and under body air management. I want to build those things and test in the tunnel before trying it out in the real world. Walking away from a problem at 175-200 isn't likely so I'd rather plan well before any attempts.

My car was a cover/feature car in sept 05 Popular Hot Rodding shot at a NMCA race in FL and in the Sept 06 issue of HOT ROD in an article about the ECTA shot in NC if you have any of the old magazines around.

Right after the HOT ROD article came out my tow rig was stolen with my 66 Stang in the trailer along with most of my tools while moving to FL. After that I bought a new rig and finished moving, then the new house was burglarized and everything I owned was stolen while I was in new england trying to sell my old house. The house was flooded by the water feed for the icemaker that went to the fridge they stole. Then the black mold started and when I got there a couple months later after selling the NE house the FL house was completly wrecked by mold. Needless to say I didn't get the cars out much in 07.

[70Firbird]

wow I don't know what I would do if that happened to me. Glad to see you keep coming back. Well my friend is about to buy my other car weds so i'll have about 7k to play with... i got to start looking into some of the parts b/c i dont know how much they cost yet

[72blackbird]

70Firbird,
You have a good starting point with your car- it's not necessary to spend a lot of coin for a gen-2 'Bird, since the car doesn't know what it is until you bolt all of the parts together. I personally would rather spend $30k in the best Pontiac parts and put together an insanely fast Firebird, instead of the same money on a relatively stock car w/ old technology that will get smoked by just about any new performance car on the market today. Alot of these new Firebird owners are too focused on owning a Firebird to speculate on the musclecar market and make money- I own a Firebird because it's a cool, bad ass car and it kicks ass.

My '72 also started out as a cushy soft Esprit, but is now more of a Frankenchicken- has the T/A fenders, spoilers, Formula hood. It also alot of nice Pontiac parts- 3.08 disc-brake 10 bolt posi from a '79 T/A, 406 w/ RAIII heads, as well as alot of aftermarket gear (H-O racing sway bars and springs, Kirkey aluminum race seats, Ultra-lite gauges, etc.). I've had the car for about 20 years now, but just got back into it after playing with other toys.

Interesting treatment to the factory formula hood- reminds me of the 76 Formula hood. I have the same hood as well, planning to move the scoops back and toward the center over the engine to form a sort of power bulge (I need the extra clearance over the engine so I can run a bigger air cleaner).

I noticed you're in LA- I'm just over the hill in Santa Clarita. PM me and we'll get together, talk Firebird, and see if we can lighten that fat wallet of yours to get some speed parts for your 'Bird.

Geno

[72blackbird]

NOT A T/A,
Nice 'Bird! I can't even remember when my 'Bird was as clean as yours (well, actually it was about 15 years ago-LOL). I like the rims, the retro look rims (Torque Thrusts?) always look good with the classic lines of our cars.

From your posts I can see that great minds think alike- in the '90s I was planning to run the Silver State Classic in Nevada as well. But as you found out firsthand, you need to get the safety gear ( cage, fuel cell, fire supression system) in there first before anyone will let you run any high-speed road course or time trial event. I used to be a really gutsy kid, street and canyon racing in my 'Bird, no cage, only safety gear was a fire extinguisher. It took two blown motors for me to figure out that stock Pontiac rods and cranks are not so good for any kind of top-end racing. But those stock Pontiac motors could still rev to 6000 rpms and run at 140-145 mph for a couple of top end runs before they faded out- not bad for stock internals.

I'm in the process of stripping my interior out, sorting out my subframe and chassis, as well as setting up my garage for the serious chassis work ahead- hard to work on the car with a garage full of clutter. I'm going to get some tube steel and build a jig, so at least I'll know the chassis and cage is square. Hopefully I can still use the subframe, if it's not too out of square.

I've got two 406's- one in the car and the other torn apart already. I need to put some better pistons and rods, better valves in the heads in the running motor, so it will come out soon, get the new parts and get a quick refreshing- much quicker to do that instead of building a 462, which needs e-heads and alot more money.

Geno