Anybody use Campbell Auto Restoration Sub-Frame?

[mazspeed]

Originally Posted by tyoneal

Mazspeed:

Thanks for chiming in. I too spoke with kevin. He was very friendly and very informative. I am having some information sent to me regarding their work.

When you say, "There subframe is incredible, but not for everybody. The subframe they make is for racing with a bit of street thrown in. Every frame is a custom deal built for a customer who wants over the top adjustments and 7 inches of travel. It's also a very costly subframe. They are the ones that redid the suspension side of my fatman subframe and it handles like no other fatman ever made."

Would you mind elaborating on:

-"Incredible, but not for everyone"?

-"subframe they make is for racing with a bit of street thrown in"?
(Would it be a challenge for it to be used on the street? If so, why? (In your opinion)
(How is it different than the, DSE, AM etc?)

-"Every frame is a custom deal built for a customer who wants over the top adjustments and 7 inches of travel" (I understand "Custom Made", when you mention, "Over the top adjustments", can you elaborate on this?

"What all did they do for your "Fatman" Frame?

I'm getting the idea that like LD's "3-Link" there architecture/engineering, performance, and challenge of installation is a step above both in quality and price than the more advertised subframes there are on the market. (Is this a fair statement?)

To which of course means that 99% of the people out there would probably not be able to appreciate the engineering that went into it. Therefore the other companies are appealing to a completely different market segment. (Those who also probably can't utilize the performance of the less expensive products, but don't have or don't want to spend the extra amount on that type of product);-)

I've spoken to many of the subframe suppliers and seen many of their products. All the ones I have seen so far have been top notch, (I would be proud to have any of them in my car), this question was meant to just understand the difference between a car like "Fuel", and a F-16 jet.

Both are excellent for their intended purpose, but not necessarily to be compared to each other. (Oranges and apples)

I hope I have not offended anyone in this post. As you know by now I have tried to really understand the different products being offered to the PT market, especially in regards to, Front Subframes, Rear Suspension choices, and the different engine packages that are able to be Purchased.

It is truly a great time to be restoring/Modifying Classic cars.

Thanks for your help.

Best Regards,

Ty O'Neal

Hey Ty. I would have to ask, what are you going to do with your car? Their subframe when I say it's not for everyone, it's because of price, time it takes to build, and intended purpose. If it's a street driven car, then Art's frame and or DSE's subframe is good for those and more. The CAR subframe is a frame that's intended use is racing with some street duty, but it's a racing frame. It's that "over the top" kind of thing. Like I said it's an over the top racing subframe. The mods made to my subframe is custom wound Eibach springs, custom koni hydraulic front shocks, custom speedtech (I think that's the name of the bar) 3 piece front swaybar and additional plates welded in for the upper and lower A arm supports.

[Steve1968LS2]

Originally Posted by jonny51

Hey Steve,didn't PHR have some sort of test on that C.A.R camaro?If so how did it compare to other cars with aftermarket subs?I remember hearing that sub was like 14k,I may be mistaken though.

The numbers are in the story. The car had a very bad "push". Since then they have re-bar'd the car and the front doesn't roll as much. The 572 big block didn't help either. lol

[kp.touring]

Ty, Steve and the rest,
We have made some tuning changes on Steve's Camaro. We've have added a little more front bar and have change to spring rate and shock valving at all 4 corners. Also we changed the power steering servo to light it up and add a p/s cooler. Mike is correct our frame is built to the customer's car, this away we can try to meet all needs and wants of our customer. We have many options regarding shocks, springs, steering, master cylinder type and placement, brakes, track width, brakes and so on.

FYI Mike Bassi's front sway bar is a hollow Speedway Engineering custom width bar with aluminum arms.

We are also doing track testing on a 69 Vette right now with our front suspension and should be able soon to post some numbers on it.

Thanks to all for the kind words in regards to our work.
Rupp I'll be sending you pictures of Nikki Broscoe's 68 Camaro it is something that Johnny will dig.

Kevin
Campbell Auto Restoration aka CAR

[tyoneal]

Kevin:

Thanks for taking the time to answer.

Please take any questions from me at face value. In no way are they to try to be offensive, like being interrogated. The email forum doesn't relate voice tone or expression, so I wouldn't want anything to be inferred beyond the actual question itself.

That said:

Was Steve's '69 Camaro your 1st, First Generation Camaro?

You mentioned making some changes to Steve's Camaro. If someone like myself wanted to hire your services, and I had my car sent to you. Would it be correct when it was shipped back to me, or would I need to re-ship it to you for subtle/Tuning changes like Steve's is going through now?

How would this be handled from long distance?

I would think that building a front subframe for another 69 Camaro would be a similar exercise as building the first one. Of course track width, choice of springs, steering sensitivity, brakes, master cylinder etc. have to be added to it, however isn't good automotive geometry for performance handling a basic series of mathematical formula's combined with the proper engineering to execute the results of the math?

I do realize that with all the additional things that have to be added to the subframe that the proper balance has to be achieved so they work well in unison with each other.

Is it possible to have the work done at your shop, and know that as it is set up so you have a middle of the road tune. Something that would be better than anything you can get anywhere else, but not optimized because the specific Track, Weather, duration, speeds and so on are not known?

This was the way Mark Magers handled the LD 3-link. As he set it up, it handles great, however if I decided to really specialize in a certain type of activity. (Drag Racing vs. Auto Cross vs. Road Racing vs. Performance Street Driving) The unit had built into it enough flexibility to enhance it's performance for any of the type of driving I might want to engage in.

Is this part of the goals of your product?

With your subframes, is there a book or manual of some type that comes with it that would help guide the individual buyer to at least be able to tune the suspension in the right direction for the desired performance change?

How have other customers dealt with this issue?

I am really looking forward to receiving the Fax from you.

Do you have a series of pictures you could post showing the types of options or the level of quality that make your product stand out from the crowd?

My project does not have a specific time of completion nor a specific budget, I do however want to make sure when my car is complete that I have researched things to the best of my ability and as much as possible have no regrets with the parts I have chosen to put in the car. I do intend to really learn to drive it correctly and attempt utilize the superb engineering that has gone into it.

Thanks for reading. I know it is long winded, but I'm sure there are other people on this site that would appreciate knowing more about your company.

Best Regards and Thanks.

Ty O'Neal

[JamesJ]

Originally Posted by tyoneal

Kevin:


Was Steve's '69 Camaro your 1st, First Generation Camaro?

There sub frame has been around for a long time if its still the same one, i remember reading about it many years ago 5 or so seems about right. if you search around on pro-touring also i am sure you can find some more info.

[kp.touring]

Originally Posted by tyoneal

Kevin:

Thanks for taking the time to answer.

Please take any questions from me at face value. In no way are they to try to be offensive, like being interrogated. The email forum doesn't relate voice tone or expression, so I wouldn't want anything to be inferred beyond the actual question itself.

That said:

Was Steve's '69 Camaro your 1st, First Generation Camaro?

Steve's car is the first one on the road, all the mock-up was done on a shop car that will small block or LSX powered.

You mentioned making some changes to Steve's Camaro. If someone like myself wanted to hire your services, and I had my car sent to you. Would it be correct when it was shipped back to me, or would I need to re-ship it to you for subtle/Tuning changes like Steve's is going through now?

Steve's car was first set up with Michilen Pilot Sports. We had the suspension set-up to work near the limit of those tires, with changing over to the Hoosier tires we have move the grip point higher which inturn made it to were wr could run more spring and bar. To answer will the car be ready to run yes and no, we would have it set up to work with tires and wheels you op for from there you can tune to your driving style. As for me I like to set-up a car with more of a "European feel" were the suspension can react to real world driving, potholes, railroad tracks, etc., if you want a firm riding car that makes you pee blood every time you drive it we can do that to. As far as shipping it back for tuning that is not needed as the front bar and shocks are adjustable and if you feel you need more spring that can be done by the end user.

How would this be handled from long distance?

I would think that building a front subframe for another 69 Camaro would be a similar exercise as building the first one. Of course track width, choice of springs, steering sensitivity, brakes, master cylinder etc. have to be added to it, however isn't good automotive geometry for performance handling a basic series of mathematical formula's combined with the proper engineering to execute the results of the math?

Math is the starting point with anything car related, if it could all be done on paper or a computer GM wouldn't need to speed millions of dollars testing thier cars before go to market.

I do realize that with all the additional things that have to be added to the subframe that the proper balance has to be achieved so they work well in unison with each other.

Is it possible to have the work done at your shop, and know that as it is set up so you have a middle of the road tune. Something that would be better than anything you can get anywhere else, but not optimized because the specific Track, Weather, duration, speeds and so on are not known?

Yes!

This was the way Mark Magers handled the LD 3-link. As he set it up, it handles great, however if I decided to really specialize in a certain type of activity. (Drag Racing vs. Auto Cross vs. Road Racing vs. Performance Street Driving) The unit had built into it enough flexibility to enhance it's performance for any of the type of driving I might want to engage in.

Is this part of the goals of your product?

Yes thatis what drove this produce, at the time we started down this path there was only 2 or 3 sub-frames on the market, to which we saw the limits of these frames, so we decided to build our own, based on current race car tech and parts. Which by the way means we can keep devolpying our frame as new and improve parts come to market.

With your subframes, is there a book or manual of some type that comes with it that would help guide the individual buyer to at least be able to tune the suspension in the right direction for the desired performance change?

Not at this time

How have other customers dealt with this issue?

I don't see this as an issue as we are a phone call or e-mail away and have been around for over 10 years and plan to be around for the long run.

I am really looking forward to receiving the Fax from you.

Do you have a series of pictures you could post showing the types of options or the level of quality that make your product stand out from the crowd?

I'll see what I can put together, will be posting pictures of Steve's car now that it is in PHR. Also there is a post of a 68 Dodge Super Bee we built somewhere here on Lat-G.

My project does not have a specific time of completion nor a specific budget, I do however want to make sure when my car is complete that I have researched things to the best of my ability and as much as possible have no regrets with the parts I have chosen to put in the car. I do intend to really learn to drive it correctly and attempt utilize the superb engineering that has gone into it.

Thanks for reading. I know it is long winded, but I'm sure there are other people on this site that would appreciate knowing more about your company.

Best Regards and Thanks.

Ty O'Neal

Kevin

[Bowtieracing]

Originally Posted by kp.touring

We are also doing track testing on a 69 Vette right now with our front suspension and should be able soon to post some numbers on it.

Thanks to all for the kind words in regards to our work.
Rupp I'll be sending you pictures of Nikki Broscoe's 68 Camaro it is something that Johnny will dig.

Kevin
Campbell Auto Restoration aka CAR

Hello Kevin!!!

Really cool at you had time to step in. Plase send some pics of your suspension work . And the vette !!! Tell me more about it

[FreddieCougar]

Originally Posted by Bowtieracing

Hello Kevin!!!

And the vette !!! Tell me more about it

It is waaaaay beyond cool. And out of hand. and LOUD.
I'm sure Kevin has pics.....

[mazspeed]

Hey Guys, Ill try and see if I can take a few photos of the suspension stuff for you.

[Bowtieracing]

Originally Posted by mazspeed

Hey Guys, Ill try and see if I can take a few photos of the suspension stuff for you.

Pleseeeee