Please allow me to rant, support your vendors!

[brans72]

You can call a company like Driverz Inc etc for info etc and not order right away might take 6 months before you do but I think it makes them feel even better when you call back and place a order. I know I called John 3 times before ordering and them 6 times before my wheels showed up but DAMN they where worth it!!!!! One of a kind,what I wanted and vendor that is very thankful that I ordered from him (I ould order from john again). Frank I have talked to least 12 times and only ordered 3 things but they where not cheap but he will talk to you about you car ( I asked him about ideas I had for my car and he gave me his feedback) nothing to do with the part I ordered so excellent customer service and products from all vendors. oh last I would say I saw a old post on autokraft oil pan called Kurt up and he gave me a discount from a post that was over 6 months old so think this site is is going due to scott and sponsor/vendors and sure I forgot someone or a few others. Bandon

[ohcbird]

Not that this is anything earth-shattering, but the problem is with places like Amazon.com, Buy.com, etc (a HUGE list, BTW), most off-the-shelf items have become simple commodities. That is what the consumer perceives, and what you are fighting daily. CNC? Hah- now guys think that all you have to do is draw it, chuck a chunk of metal, then cut it. Bam- instant custom part that 'has to be cheap because they didn't have to build it by hand'. Again- it's an issue of consumer perception, not your reality.

While most of the older guys might not internet shop- The customer that is going to pay your bills for the next 30 years is well versed in shopping around. Note that I did not mention Summit & Jegs... they changed the buying landscape, but that was going to happen anyway. If it wasn't them it would have been somebody else (remember when the PAW catalog was 400+ pages?).

John- you know as well as I do what happens to the guys that are in business to undercut the 'other guy'. They won't last long. If guys are price shopping, let them. They'll be back around when the real character of the 'other guy' comes out.

Jeff

[Roadster Shop]

These companies are called "Supporting Vendors", supporting your hobby - How about returning the favor and supporting them?

A lot of good points made here that need to come to light. All of the vendors on these sites are breaking their @$$ and spending countless hours building reputations, proving their products, answering tech questions, and putting their support into all of "your" projects. It seams that the majority of people are interested in saving a few bucks. But what about the companies that are making this hobby possible?

Bottom line is that these cars are expensive to build. Saving a few bucks may seam harmless, but it is definitely hurting the companies that are making all of this possible.

We have completely stopped selling parts and eliminated them from our show room because it was not worth having the large inventory costs that don't seam to pay off.

-RS Performance

[HRBS]

Jon,
I hear you loud and clear. You've helped me many times.
My phone constantly rings for "pricing" or advice.
By the time I invest the time and effort to get the best price from my suppliers, (you included) they wind up buying elsewhere. And most of the times over a few dollars.
I often have the same experience with my estimates. I try to be as fair and honest up front. I DONT leave anything out. No detail left unsaid. The "sticker shock" of reality makes them search elsewhere only to fall victim of the age-old "hook-line-sinker" deal where builders leave alot out only to surprise the customer later once the car is already apart. Then they call me looking for advice and to ask how to resolve there "issues".
They seem to forget the person or persons who made an effort to gather the all the information and pricing up front.
We've had our talks Jon.... and you know where I stand.
Well make it work one of these days.
Keep your head up... its guys like you who are appreciated by guys like me.

[ProdigyCustoms]

First I agree 100% about supporting the vendors. And as the market tightens it can really be more painful. But I have a unique view on this because I love the technical work and have found a way to make it a huge part of our business plan.

Because of this open tech service, it is possible no vendor on these forums deals with more tech service that goes somewhere else to buy then I do because for 2 years it is clearly in my signature

FREE PRO TOURING TECH and PROJECT PLANNING for forum members
Weekdays 8AM TO 10PM EASTERN TIME
FOUR ZERO SEVEN 832 1752

So I get inundated with calls.

I make it clear our tech service for the membership and is free with no purchase necessary. I spend literally hours a day on the phone, my cell phone, doing tech and project planning. Helping develop build plans. Helping work inside of budgets and goals, making sure my guy is not over spending or under spend in one area of another, giving away every how to secret I have learned in 27 years of building cars, and advising what I KNOW from experience what works and what does'nt. A lot of these calls are often from other shops that are not Pro Touring specialist. We work with and supply hobbyist and shops all over the world. And let me tell you, a guy 10,000 miles away needs help to be sure he gets the right thing, cause returns from overseas are a bitch!

There are 4 kinds of tech calls I deal with on our open tech line

(1) Mister loyal buyer. This is the guy that is going to buy from us because he appreciates the service, technical advice, the experience, no hard sell approach, and he trust us. He has seen our builds, he has seen our post, and he knows we know our stuff. This guys knows he is getting a good deal and will almost always come back for more stuff. I like to look at this guy as the make a little on a lot of items, instead of make a killing on one sale.

(2) Mister shopper. This is the guy looking for free tech advice and he will go somewhere else to buy at a better negotiate price. this guy can be hard to spot, he may even promise to come back and buy, but he won't because he never intended to unless he could not beat anyone else up anymore. This guy will probably throw our name out and use it for leverage, a bargaining wedge to try to get a better price from a competitor. Or maybe he goes to a pajama retailer selling on E bay or a forum from his living room. But even this guy will often times refer others to us for technical advice and those become buyers because they are not the Mister Shopper type, but are the Mister Loyal Buyer type. So even Mister shopper, however sideways, can create a future sale.

(3) Mister straight up, I am buying somewhere else. This is the guy that has the balls up front to tell you he is buying somewhere else for whatever reason. This guy will tell you he just wants to get your advice because he wants to verify the first guy advise. I appreciate this guy that tells me up front he is buying someone else same or competing product but really only trust my recommendations (I have a couple of these in a PM box today). I even had a guy call me to spec out Vintage Air system and tell me he is buying from his buddy because he is helping the buddy do a buy in to become a dealer for vintage Air. Whatever. There buddy probably won't sell radiators, so maybe this guy buys a Prodigy Customs radiator down the road. Mister straight up may also tell a friend how accommodating we are and that friend just might be a Mister Loyal type.

(4) And then there is Mister Dreamer. This is the guy that either has no money, never will have any money, or may not even have a car. This guy is easy to spot early in the conversation, but I am never rude as you never know when this guy may inherit some money, have a friend with money and tell them how helpful we are, or our dreamer might hit the lottery. It is only 6 random numbers.

So while my closing ratio of sales to hours on the phone is horrendously low, we still do a huge amount of business. And at the end of the day I feel great because I know helped some people with their dream (and these toys really are dreams for most members), I know if they bought from me I gave them a good deal, and even though I did not get every sale, I still made good money and got to live a absolute dream.

I mean come on, I get to talk about cars. I get to build and own some of the most badd ass cars on the planet. I get to make dreams come true, and I make a living doing it.

[camaro2nv]

I shop the vendors on this site all the time. As for wheels, vendors on this site dont carry the wheels I like. Just so happens the wheel company I want to order from hasnt done my car. Now I did make a post about fitment in the wheel section. I wasnt trying to cut anyone out but at the same time I thought this was a place to come to learn about things like that.
Edit I did get a offer from Frank and Ill be taking him up on it. Im just waiting until I get some cash to buy the G bar when I make the call.

[Blake Foster]

Hey Frank...........







I got a question???

seriously ..............

i am a bit of the old school guy........ i resist buying off the net as much as possible. i even resist not buying from our local speed shop, mainly because the guy i always talk to knows his sh$% too, and i get to get a second opinion on a part maybe we haven't used previously from the guy who sells them all day long and can tell me if the part sucks cuz he also sees the returns/ warranty.
i also try to buy and sell and or push guys to other supporting vendors, i think since SEMA i have forwarded 3 different guys to Jon to get the same wheel/tires that we had on the speed tech camaro. now i have no way of knowing if they actually called him and ordered them, but like was said earlier 2 of them were shops that obviously did not have a good handle on what was involved in putting 20x12 /345/35 tiers on the back of a first gen camaro. they didn't buy the wheels from us.

[98ssnova]

Man guys I am turly sorry to hear this I feel as a "member" I do support the vendors on this site I have surfed pretty much all the links to the left HAHA. I do buy from you guys mostly ATS. I remember when i first read Tyler's post and though damn this sucks. But then people started post that they wanted spindles or something else. This really pissed me off why would you be waiting to pull the trigger on these things. I don't have alot of money and I still somehow manage to pull together a sizable amount of money to me and spent every last dollar at ATS I the thing that turned me most was Tyler's service we were invited into his shop and just talked about cars and dreams and that to me was more impressive than the forged spindles that I bought so I do appreicate customer service and feel that we as members need to get off our wallets and support these guys the way they do us. Sorry rant off I just don't want this community to go away.

[Flash68]

Very good posts and topic, Jon. I have bought 2 tire sets from you and will always give you a call on future tire/wheel purchases if you can get what I am looking for. Your service has been fantastic.

That being said, I just want to point out that many buyers and enthusiasts are in tough financial shape as well (my business was down over 50% from 07 to 08) so this can and will affect how "frugal" many buyers will behave. I think we all realize this - I just wanted to point this out, however obvious it is.

But the bottom line is consistent here - if you spend time talking to a vendor (paying/supporting vendor status or not) and his price is close enough to the best price you have found, go with that vendor who helped you.

Time are tough for a lot of people tho....

[Musclerodz]

I get this as well, but I get alot more of it with our shop work. Local guys know my work, like what I do, but don't like the up front "this is what it is going to cost" price. What usually happens is someone else will lowball me by quite a bit, and before the car gets out of their shop, they have paid as much or more than my original quote for an inferior job. I know of at least 6 cars this happened with last year.

I have on more than one occasion referred customers to other vendors if they carried something I didn't. I even buy from other board members if it is a product I don't carry. I will openly admit I have bought several parts from Frank at Prodigy, Marcus at SC&C, and a few others. Not only are they competitors, I also consider them friends. If we don't take care of each other, no one else will.