"The Bet" Suspension Thread - 75 BBC Camaro

[deuce_454]

x2 to what jimjil said.. except, bolting or welding in a subframe connector only to use poly body mounts .. whats that about ?!? .. solid all the way !!.. and tie into the rockers if possible,

[deuce_454]

here si a pre-engineered truck arm kit for your project... http://www.hotrodstohell.net/truckar...y_truckarm.htm

[DDY RCKT]

Originally Posted by deuce_454

here si a pre-engineered truck arm kit for your project... http://www.hotrodstohell.net/truckar...y_truckarm.htm

I'm thinking that may be the way to go, but I need to figure out how much re-engineering I'd need to make it fit. The Gen 1 kit requires new or modified floor pans, from what I understand. For ease of intallation, the Watts link/sport leaf springs or the Martz 4-link are tops, but is the truck arm suspension better enough that it's worth the extra $400? The floor pans are toast, btw, and need replaced anyway, so maybe...just maybe it's well worth it.

[Jimjim]

As some of you know my S10 truck has been mildly modded suspension wise with the addition of an LS1 Vette motor. I'm reminding people of this because I have a neighbor (Don) who owns an M3 with wider tires, mild suspension mods and who knows (same problem, big mouth). Anyway I'm telling him of this project and Don says "Ain't now way any American POS can" well you get the gist. Bottom line is theres a twisty long road out in Tattanal County that people have been know to slightly drive above the posted limits . My truck destroyed him in the curves and of course the straights. I'm telling you this to let you know that you don't have to spend a lot of money to outdo most sports cars, (exceptions are ferrari etc.). Theres lots of just mild mods you can do without breaking the bank. I only spent about $9500 on mine including the engine to upgrade the truck.....Jim PS, Don don't like me anymore

[DDY RCKT]

Originally Posted by Jimjim

As some of you know my S10 truck has been mildly modded suspension wise with the addition of an LS1 Vette motor. I'm reminding people of this because I have a neighbor (Don) who owns an M3 with wider tires, mild suspension mods and who knows (same problem, big mouth). Anyway I'm telling him of this project and Don says "Ain't now way any American POS can" well you get the gist. Bottom line is theres a twisty long road out in Tattanal County that people have been know to slightly drive above the posted limits . My truck destroyed him in the curves and of course the straights. I'm telling you this to let you know that you don't have to spend a lot of money to outdo most sports cars, (exceptions are ferrari etc.). Theres lots of just mild mods you can do without breaking the bank. I only spent about $9500 on mine including the engine to upgrade the truck.....Jim PS, Don don't like me anymore

Well, you aren't too far. We can bring you and him up at the same time as me and my friend go to the track, and see what's what.

[Jimjim]

Wouldnt it be fun to trash some supposedly high dollar sports cars with an old Camaro and a pickup truck. ....Jim

[Daz]

Subscribed !

[Silver69Camaro]

I guess I don't see what the big deal is. Here's why:

My daily driver is a E46 330i with the ZHP package. That includes most of the M-sport goodies except mine has the 5-speed auto (very nice tranny, BTW...). Also has 225/40R18 on front, 255/30R18 on back, which are fairly soft Pilot Sport Cup tires. While it doesn't have a huge amount of power (runs mid 14's in the quarter), it handles and feels very well. It's basically as close to an M3 as you can get without paying the M3 price tag. M3's have lots more power, but the suspensions are very close.

My '69 has our GT Sport Subframe and had fiberglass leafs (changing to something else...). 245/40R18 up front, 275/40R18 in back. 52/48 weight distribution, 2950lbs dry, stock LS1 (with headers), T56, no subframe connectors or cage.

Here's my comparisons between the two cars:
1. The BMW has EXCELLENT steering feel. Most steering systems engineers will tell you the BMW is the benchmark for feedback. When the tires start to slip, you'll feel it and have sufficient time to react. My Camaro did not have this luxury at first, but now that I've reduced the flow rate of the LS1 PS pump, it feels like a race-oriented BMW.

2. The BMW rides better, but rolls more in the corners. I'm very sure the bimmer can turn over .90g, but the Camaro is much more like a track car. Very flat on corners, but still soaks up bumps and is a joy to drive on long trips.

3. The Camaro has much more bite in the turns, and is incredible for the wear rating of the tires (300, BFG KD IIs). The Bimmer is close, but not quite.

4. The Bimmer responds much better to tire pressure changes. Probably because of the weight balance (it's 50/50 or 49/50, somewhere around there). I've found 36psi cold works best on all four corners for balanced handling. Anyway, the Camaro is happy with a wide range of pressures (about 34psi +/- 2psi, so 32-36psi works well). Makes it easier for tuning.

Anyway, so in summary the Camaro feels much more like a race car than the bimmer. A M3 will close this gap somewhat, but I feel the performance of the two vehicles is so close it would be up to the driver on which car is faster. The race may go for the M3 because bimmers are notorious for making a novice driver go fast. If both drivers are good, then it would be a close race!

If I upped the spring rate to 650lbs/in, increase roll stiffness by 15%, lower by 1", and added some sticky DOT tires, it would be untouchable by a stock M3. And these are all changes I can do in a couple hours...

[Rick Dorion]

Thanks, Matt.

HMMM - what's the something else you changed to?

[Silver69Camaro]

Originally Posted by Rick Dorion

HMMM - what's the something else you changed to?

You'll see.