Low dollar verses high dollar susp upgrade

[Vegas69]

Originally Posted by rogue

I'm not even sure whats out there for Buicks. I'd assume some height adjustable coilovers, some lowering leafs, and some sway bars/tires is all he would need to feel much improvement and on a decent budget as well.

That would be a great start.....only thing I would add is a modern alignment.

[GregWeld]

Welcome to the site!! 'Tis the best!!

Okay - my own real time seat time -- no "engineering" included. I had the stock frame under my 56 Nomad - I decided to upgrade to some new tubular A arms... what these arms did - was improved the straight line tracking because I could now dial in some caster... BIG IMPROVEMENT. You go from 0 or 1 degree of caster to 5 -- BIG difference...

Now -- The tubular A arms also allowed me to run coilovers -- I have QA1 - but that's just a brand -- what this allowed me to do is --- SET RIDE HEIGHT --- and Dial in the rebound on the shock to SUIT ME... and the ride I want.

So another BIG improvement... Expensive yes --- Worth it..... Well -- for me it was so worth it -- I bought a whole new frame! LOL But now my handling is 100 X's better and the ride is better - because the frame is 'stiffer' - and because it has coilovers all the way around... and Rack and pinion steering is responsive and tight - as is the suspension...

But I did it "because I could" and "wanted to".... So in the end - it's still as you said - depends on how you're going to use it and what turns your crank.

[Vegas69]

I'll just apologize in advance.... http://www.detroitspeed.com/productp..._6472abody.htm Dse stuff is top of the line and will get you right where you want to be...

[GregWeld]

Oh oh.... I smell plastic burning!!

It's like I tell the wife -- "I'm not broke - just bent"...

[gearheads78]

Make the call to SC&C like I mentioned in the email and you won't be sorry. Best thing you can do without breaking the bank.

[pro-tour79]

64 Skylark and leaf springs!? but I digress, welcome to the board as an "engineer" I would think that a quick analysis of what is needed to improve upon a system would be the first place to start, understanding how suspension geometry changes as it operates affects the loads placed on the tires, knowing this will tell you what it tacks to achieve you goals how ever loafty those may be, btw goals and $ have a VERY close tie
So a nice set of modern tires will improve the handling feel but will transfer more load to the suspension and chassis now you need a better suspension...it's a never ending quest ultimatly the driver is the limiting factor.

[ParkerRS]

As stated above there are many routes to take. They depend on your end goal as well as budget. Most times if you are dealing with reputable sources such as SC&C, DSE, Morrison, Etc you will get what you pay for. The question then is what you desire.

You say that you want the car to be a daily driver somewhat. If your used to driving a '98 bird you will soon find out the serious shortcomings of a stock rebuilt '64 suspension and brakes when compared. As stated above, you don't have to break the bank. On my gray car I simply used some global west control arms coupled with hothkiss springs to both lower and slightly stiffen along with large sway bars also from hothkiss. The difference was amazing, I also installed a quick ratio steering box from Lee manufacturing and it is a wonderful street car. I upgraded the brakes to 13" front disc and 12" rear disc, brakes are some of the best money you will ever spend on one of these cars considering the wieght compared with the 30's street rods. There are many suppliers for big brake set-ups just choose your budget and goals. There are Kore3, touring classics, baer, wilwood, and others also if you prefer power brakes don't forget hydraboost as it is well worth the cash on a daily driver, you can't beat the difference it will make. I will not build another car without it.

Tires and wheels will make the major difference, but don't jump the gun. Bigger brakes will require bigger wheels. Stickier and wider tires will increase the suspension load exponentially and can overwhelm the stock suspension. After all the stock suspension was designed in '64 to run a 6" wheel width with 78 series bias-ply tires, not 8" wheels with 245 sticky radial rubber. As an engineer you should have a greater understanding of this than I do.

Sorry to be long winded. Some of the new products will greatly improve your car without breaking the bank and are a very worthwhile investment. Take your time, do the research, and you can work it out a few parts at a time to ease the blow. Most all of the manufacturers and suppliers will be happy to discuss their products with you at length and answer your questions. Welcome to the site.

[Roger M]

Jason Rushforth Installed some Hotchkis stuff on his Buick. He has put it through the cones and I believe that he is happy with the results. Maybe he will chime in here.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by 64skylarkls1

Meaning.. It already has "basic suspension parts" on it What would make a BIG improvement for the money over a freshened lowered stock set up like I mentioned

Let's just say that the devil is in the details. The "basic suspension parts" that are on the car now were chosen and geometrically arranged to suit the mass market demands of the early 1960's, with all of the cornering performance limitations that are implied by that statement. What I'm getting at is that it isn't as much about the presence of some basic suspension part as it is about how well it is tuned for what you're going after. Just having a front sta-bar (as opposed to not having one at all) doesn't really mean much, and having a "SLA" (aka A-arm) suspension does not mean that it has to be in the best-handling geometric arrangement possible. Or even in a good one.

I'm a little curious as to what sort of engineering you work with, as suspension (re)design is only an example of an engineering field that's partly mechanical and partly structural.

I recommend that you start with some reading - Fred Puhn's "How To Make Your Car Handle" is a decent place to start, as it provides more than a simplified overview without dragging in an overload of math. Read it for the formulas and the discussion rather than for details of specific manufacturer's cars and parts data.

Don't confuse the appearance of better cornering/handling performance with having the real thing. Some of the consequences from lowering may not be favorable, again depending on the specifics of your suspension. For example, running a ball joint out of angular travel in either bump or rebound (because the lowering has used almost all of it up) is clearly something to avoid. The relation of front vs rear roll center height will likely change, which will have some effect on the way the car "feels", not only in a steady-state corner such as a 270° Interstate on-ramp, but also during the transient period time that it takes to get to that steady cornering state from straight ahead. This might affect what you end up with in terms of springs and sta-bars.

Drop "spindles" might limit your wheel choice, as interference between the outer tierod ends and the wheel/tire happens sooner. This may or may not be an issue in any given case, but you should at least be aware of it. My '79 Malibu wears 15 x 8.5 front wheels that have less than 1/32" clearance to the outer tierods, just to throw out a real-world example. Yes, I knew it was going to be tight . . . did LOTS of measuring.


BTW, don't overlook the circle track supply houses for suspension bits. You can, for example, get springs in a wide range of rates, rather than spending to go the coil-over route.


Norm

[Mkelcy]

Originally Posted by 64skylarkls1

Hey all,

I'm a newbie to this forum and to this 60's and 70's era of car collecting. I've been a street rodder (pre 1949 cars) for many years but also have a 98 WS6 Ragtop TA. I recently purchased a solid 64 Skylark convertible as I've wanted to do a mid 60's mild custom for some time now and this car is the perfect candidate. The power plant will be a LS1 with 6 speed from wrecked 02 camaro.

In recent weeks I've been researching suspension for this early A body and and I'm not yet convinced that the benefit you get from the upgrades is worth the big money spent. It's a no brainer with a '32 Ford that came with a straight axle. Dropping in an independent front suspension made a huge impact on not only the performance but also in safety.

Front end: This A-body came with a nice independent front suspension. I want the car to be about 3 to 4 inches lower all the way around. As long as the stock A arms are in good shape with new bushings, why not just use 2" dropped front spindles, cut a coil out of the original spring, pick up a used heavier '66 stablizer bar and finish it off with a good stiff shock? Can someone convince this engineer that spending more money up front will yield enough benefit to justify it?

Same goes for the rear suspension. I know the rear axle should probably be changed going for a posi unit but again, its all relative. I'm not taking this car to the strip, it will be my daily driver when finished. I'm thinking new bushings in all the pivot arms, a 1" stabalizer bar, shorter coil springs and a stiff shock.

Once again, could anybody convince me that spending thousands of dollars on the aftermarket goodies is going to be worth it? Is there good hard data to back it up? I will be going with disc brakes front and rear as I have the components already and the performance gains are undenyable.

I'm sure interested in what you all have to say.

Several observations:

No doubt, the front suspension on the '64 Skylark is significantly improved over the stock suspension on the '32 Ford, it is, after all, 32 years newer, incorporating 32 years of development of suspension and tire technolgy.

This is 2009 and the Skylark's suspension design was laid down (probably) 47 years ago. Similar to the '32 Ford to '64 Skylark gap, there has been substantial development of suspension and tire technolgy in that period. The "expensive" aftermarket products incorporate a lot of that development.

That said, if the improved handling isn't worth it to you it's not worth it. Use your drop spindles, don't do anything to correct the camber curve, cut the coils without changing rates, throw some sway bars in, top it off with KYB shocks and call it good. If you're happy with that no one here can or should talk you out of it.

And I'd certainly take Norm's advice - the man knows what he's talking about.