Not sure where to post this on Tiger Cage

[ccracin]

Originally Posted by bret

A few additional things to consider about the TigerCage:

1. The mounting points of the cage are designed to integrate with the structural strength points of the vehicle in TWO planes. This means that not only is the cage tied into the car at the strongest possible location, it is attached in both the horizontal plane and the vertical plane so there is always at least 2 of the fasteners that are loaded in shear in addition to tension.
2. The TigerCage clamps are investment cast from 304L stainless. This means that they are much more malleable than a sand casting. I have pressed these flat in a press with no fracturing.
3. The clamps have been tested to over 700 lb. ft. of rotational resistance. That means that it takes a sustained force of over 700 lbs at 1 ft. from the centline of the tube to even begin to move the clamp around the axis of the tube.
4. The 304L stainless tubing is Rath-Gibson Microweld. Their manufacturing data indicates that this tubing has a superior and consistant wall thickness, roundness and concitricity than comersially available DOM tubing.
5. 304L stainless has a tensile strength that exceeds 1035 mild steel and approaches 4130 steel. The YEILD strength, however , is lower than mild steel. This means that it will bend sooner than mild steel, and will therefore ABSORB some crash energy as opposed to transferring it directly to the vehicle and driver. This is why several OE manufacturers are going to an austensic stainless in crash area panels.
6. I didn't "invent" the concept of controlled crash absorbtion [although I do have a patent pending on the clamp assembly]. It was borrowed from one of our military projects. They were kind enough to explain concept of crash energy dissipation to me over the last few years. They also pointed out that buildings, bridges, and airplanes are bolted together. The concept here is that if you can test and certify the fastener, test and certify the attachment mechanism, test and certify the material, THEN you have a certifiable complete unit that leaves no latitude to field inspector as to its integrity.
7. SFI certification is still pending. These kinds of certifications do not come easily. SFI is [rightfully so] VERY sensitive about safety and engineering.

If it was easy...it WOULD be "rice".

There are several other general benefits [self installation, exposed welds, no painting, etc] of the TigerCage that are well covered in our literature and on our website. The TigerCage is NOT for everyone. For those who are skilled weldors, designers and fabricators...you can likely do as good a job as we can on a cage. Also, for a 6 second Pro Mod car or a 250 mph land speed car there are issues that the TigerCage would not be effecient at addressing.
For the rest of the world...you may want to take a look!

Bret,

Great information and very well stated. This is one of the benefits of having the person truly behind these products available here to provide accurate data. While I still stand behind my earlier post, I will say that I probably should have explained my position a bit better for the benefit of Mike's search.

This part of your post to me says it all:

Originally Posted by bret

There are several other general benefits [self installation, exposed welds, no painting, etc] of the TigerCage that are well covered in our literature and on our website. The TigerCage is NOT for everyone. For those who are skilled weldors, designers and fabricators...you can likely do as good a job as we can on a cage. Also, for a 6 second Pro Mod car or a 250 mph land speed car there are issues that the TigerCage would not be effecient at addressing.
For the rest of the world...you may want to take a look!

With any type of cage system the use should be evaluated first and foremost. As you said, the TigerCage is not applicable to all needs. The same can also be said for the classic cage installation. The intended use will dictate the configuration, materials, and installation requirements. This is where doing your homework is oh so critical.

I assumed (I know!) that the cage was intended for all out track days and since the SFI certification is pending, I responded as I did. I should have asked some questions before I responded with a recommendation. Your product eliminates alot of variables that the average guy in most cases does not have access to. Namely a certified welder. There is no point buying a certified cage kit and then bubble gumming it together. On my projects, I have a certified welder do all the structural welding. Good advice for anyone in my opinion.

Anyway, I think Ridetech has very well engineered products and I wanted to clear up my first post so that it did not shed a bad light on the TigerCage product. The intent was to convey the importance of applying the correct solution to the requirement. I did a poor job of that to start. Hopefully this clears that up and gives Mike and others some more to think about.

Thanks for taking the time to explain the product Bret. Keep the great products coming.

[bret]

I just received notification from ECTA [East Coast Timing Association] that they have certified the TigerCage for competition up to 175 mph. http://www.ridetech.com/store/tigercage/

ECTA runs the standing mile event in Maxton, NC a few times a year including the Hot Rod Magazine Top Speed Challenge http://www.ecta-lsr.com/?page_id=69

Joe Timney is the President of ECTA. He also owns Deleware Chassis Works and builds many top speed style vehicles for MAxton and Bonneville.

Keith Turk is the competition director for ECTA. Some of you have met Keith on Hot Rod's Drag Week over the years...He and his wife Tonya run the event there as well.

Both of these guys were instrumental in wading through the details that have allowed ECTA to grant us certification at this level.

SCCA and SFI are next!

[buickfunnycar.com]

Cool option for the masses to consider...

[rogue]

thats great news but the product is still $500 above the cost of a full custom cage.

[coolwelder62]

Sometimes it's hard to find someone who is really qualified to install a fabricated cage properly.I seen some cages that were installed by socalled fabricator's that were down right scarey.For the DIY that has no welding or tube notching skill's this is a real nice pc. If your are not going to be doing any door to door or real fast on track driving I think these tiger cage's would be right for PT car's being built.Think of this point,even this cage is better than a weld in cage installed wrong. If the joint notches of a weld in cage are not properly fitted and then large gap's welded up IMHO this joint now is not as good as the joint the tiger cages is designed with.Plus the stainless tubing would real nice w/the top down on a convert.Ride tech make's awesome componet's for the PT world that don't have a complete fab shop at there finger tip's.And if your already have a completed or finished car totaly disassem. and coving all the glass and head liner takes time or money.Plus it will need to be primed & painted which could cost quite a bit also.The tiger cage has it's place in the PT. world.I think it's a great product and wish I would have thought of it. Scott Mock.

[2Bad4Ya]

Just remember....

The Ark was built by an amature
The Titanic was built by professionals

[JayR]

Originally Posted by rogue

thats great news but the product is still $500 above the cost of a full custom cage.

Before it's properly welded in at $50-100/hour. Like said before, you don't want average joe and his 110 wire feed putting a cage together, or blasting welding slag all over your glass and interior if it's an assembled car which the Tiger Cage is very well suited for. I've seen a pro shop ruin a $700 piece of glass while installing a cage.

[mstennes]

Originally Posted by bret

I just received notification from ECTA [East Coast Timing Association] that they have certified the TigerCage for competition up to 175 mph. http://www.ridetech.com/store/tigercage/

ECTA runs the standing mile event in Maxton, NC a few times a year including the Hot Rod Magazine Top Speed Challenge http://www.ecta-lsr.com/?page_id=69

Joe Timney is the President of ECTA. He also owns Deleware Chassis Works and builds many top speed style vehicles for MAxton and Bonneville.

Keith Turk is the competition director for ECTA. Some of you have met Keith on Hot Rod's Drag Week over the years...He and his wife Tonya run the event there as well.

Both of these guys were instrumental in wading through the details that have allowed ECTA to grant us certification at this level.

SCCA and SFI are next!

Bret,
For the 25000.00 question, will the Tiger Cage fit in a 69 convertable?

[wmhjr]

This thread reminds me why I wouldn't want to be a parts manufacturer. Lots of criticism of an option in many cases by folks who have never seen it or considered its intended purpose. I've got a few odds and ends from a tiger cage and I've seen them installed. We can all argue then price, but as far as quality this is very high quality stuff, and clearly well thought out. Frankly far higher quality than most of the recreational class cages I've seen lately. I would be very careful calling this product unsafe, rice, or junk unless you've got clear evidence of failures or concrete data to support your position. From time to time we all have reasons to pick on vendors but this sure isn't one of them. And no, I don't have a single item from Ridetech on my car. Just an honest observation.

[bret]

Originally Posted by mstennes

Bret,
For the 25000.00 question, will the Tiger Cage fit in a 69 convertable?

Will it fit? Well, the front half will. The rear bars fit the coupe only.
The more important question...will it work?

No. Without the rear half of the tiger cage, I would NOT recommend any competitive driving events. The low attachment point of the door bars is simply not enough to prevent the hopp from collapsing in the event that the car gets upside down. You would have to install rear braces to the main hoop. We aren't doing those for the convertible right now, and they are not currently on the schedule. The tigercagecclamp components are available however...you could build your own.