If you only needed a car a couple weekend a month...

[BC69]

Thanks guys! I am obviously not surprised by the voting haha.

DON'T go for patches -- as in patching up the 50 year old electrical harness. Have 'em rip it all out and put in brand new. It's cheaper and easier and works correctly when you're done spending the $$

Everything is brand new, the restoration was bottom up, no shortcuts - but there is something up with the ignition/electronics/starter. Thats my biggest reliability issue - sometimes it just wont start. Been to the shop 5 times for this, and towed home countless more.

BTW -- You never once mentioned leasing a NEW Camaro.... and that would be a nice choice once they begin to deliver the drop top versions. But my money would go into a classic.

There are two parts to that. A: not sure I want two Camaros. B: Leasing is not practical for US cars like that or a Mustang vs. a luxury car. The depreciation rate factored into the pricing is too high and you end up paying more for a Camaro then for a fully loaded CTS. C: Buying new would put it in the running with the low APR's out there, but I dont want a big car payment after killing my student loans.

Take the money drop in a stock LS2 add some disc brakes and fix the electrical issues. It would be a lot more fun and enjoyable in the end.

That would be the plan - and I know people hate the "how much question" But give or take 5k, whats ballpark on that?

Part of why option A is on there is if anyone comes to visit me, i could just give them my car to have while I am at work. Guess a few weeks a year of ZipCar might take care of that.

I'm not sure how long you'll be in SF, but a mid 90's low mileage 993 would be a great option for those SF weekends.

Yup, 993 was very high on my list. I dont fit in them stock haha, but could move the seat ect. Prices are all across the map depending on options and mileage. My experience with owning the Camaro is why I am hesitant. Breaking things on our muscle cars sucks, but parts are easy, cheap, and alot we can do ourselves. I'd be more concerned about maintenance on a Porsche of M3 option. Id probably pay the premium of getting one from a dealer vs. private just for an extended warranty.

Keep it coming, thanks guys.

[GregWeld]

Explain in detail what happens when "it won't start"....

[BC69]

I could hijack my own threat with this.

Problem - Driving around, stop for anything, turn off car - wont restart (no click, just dead battery). This is not heat because I can go 5 minutes down the road and have it happen, or go 3 hours on the highway and have it not happen. I have a volt gauge and when I look before turning off, its at full power. Lets say I take it out for a Saturday drive. I can stop 15 times and no problem, but the 16th...done for. My new routine is just never turning the car off. When I get low on gas I stop on the way home at the nearest place to my storage, and cross my fingers.

Solutions - sometimes waiting a few minutes and it will start. Sometimes I wait an hour and it won't. Sometimes jumping it works! I keep a battery charger with me, but sometimes that doesn't do it. I have had it sit for an hour, not start...get towed home, and fire up as soon as its off the tow truck!

Attempted Fixed - first time it went in for this, shop thought it was neutral safety switch on the transmission. Fixed it. Didn't solve the problem. While the battery, cables, alternator and starter are all brand new with the rebuild I have replaced the starter, battery and cables. The electric harnesses are brand new as well. The steering column for the key, not new actually. The ignition is a stock system.

I have posted a few threads on here about it and have tried many of the comments to no avail. It is hard to diagnose as well because you cannot make it happen. My shop has taken the car around and tried to replcate it, nothing...then I pick the car up and it happens on my way home! She has a mind of her own!

[GregWeld]

You replaced everything EXCEPT the ignition switch.....

I'd pull the switch out - get a volt/ohm meter - do a continuity check between the terminals that switch the starter motor -- you can sit and click the switch a zillion times watching (or like my Fluke - LISTEN) for it to make contact.... If it skips once in awhile - replace the switch. Don't get a chinese version! Step up and get a GM replacement or equivalent.

[PTAddict]

Originally Posted by BC69

I could hijack my own threat with this.

Problem - Driving around, stop for anything, turn off car - wont restart (no click, just dead battery). This is not heat because I can go 5 minutes down the road and have it happen, or go 3 hours on the highway and have it not happen. I have a volt gauge and when I look before turning off, its at full power. Lets say I take it out for a Saturday drive. I can stop 15 times and no problem, but the 16th...done for. My new routine is just never turning the car off. When I get low on gas I stop on the way home at the nearest place to my storage, and cross my fingers.

Solutions - sometimes waiting a few minutes and it will start. Sometimes I wait an hour and it won't. Sometimes jumping it works! I keep a battery charger with me, but sometimes that doesn't do it. I have had it sit for an hour, not start...get towed home, and fire up as soon as its off the tow truck!

Attempted Fixed - first time it went in for this, shop thought it was neutral safety switch on the transmission. Fixed it. Didn't solve the problem. While the battery, cables, alternator and starter are all brand new with the rebuild I have replaced the starter, battery and cables. The electric harnesses are brand new as well. The steering column for the key, not new actually. The ignition is a stock system.

I have posted a few threads on here about it and have tried many of the comments to no avail. It is hard to diagnose as well because you cannot make it happen. My shop has taken the car around and tried to replcate it, nothing...then I pick the car up and it happens on my way home! She has a mind of her own!

Somebody must have mentioned this before, but this sounds like the classic GM starter heat soak problem. If you have an original style GM starter, and long tube headers, and no heat wrap on the starter, this problem is virtually guaranteed to happen. Lots of stop and go traffic, with no air flow under the car, and a ton of radiant heat from the headers, bakes the starter. The starter then won't work until it cools down, whereupon it mysteriously works again. Drives you crazy - I know from experience.

The newer-style mini starters are less susceptible to this problem, but in any case I've concluded you should never run long tube headers or other exhaust near the starter without protecting it with heat wrap (those DEI starter heat blankets, or similar).

[NOT A TA]

I had a similar problem with my 67 Camaro for 3 years or so. At first when I bought the car I figured heat soak from the headers. So I tried the usual remedies. Over the next couple years it continued through a couple battteries, starters,cables, another ignition switch, etc. After toting a meter around with me (7 volts at starter) and getting fed up to the point where I had others look at it thinking I'm missing something simple. I had two different garages tell me it needed parts that didn't fix it (more batteries, starters,etc.). Then it died at a very inopportune time next to a garage when I had to catch a plane flight so I left it there. Turned out that the wire from the ignition switch to the starter wasn't replaced when the rest of the wires were. Hasn't occured since.

Oh , I voted bring the car out. I don't see the reliability issue once the problem is fixed which needs to be done no matter what your decision is. A well maintained rebuilt car can be just as reliable if not more than a newer car or modernized drivetrain in an old car. Contrary to the trend I don't really see why a modern LS engine should be any more reliable than a gen 1. More power, yes, more effecient, yes, smoother, yes, quieter, yes. But there's so little that goes wrong with the old ones once rebuilt. Slap on a modern ignition and a modern carb and you're good for 50-100,000 miles. No sensor problems/malfunctions, computer issues etc. just drive it. I drive my 70 bird daily and done trips up to 4000 miles.

[Neil B]

Are you living in San Francisco or a nearby town? What is your parking/storage situation like? If you're living in the city, get a used car that you don't mind parking on the streets when you're doing all the fun things that city has to offer. I lived in SF for 9 years and owned a '69 Z28 during most of the that time. Here's what I learned:

1) Most of the garages/entries are very narrow. We ended up with an E46 BMW because it was the widest car that would fit in the garage at our home. So measure your garage door entry and then go car shopping.

2) Many garages in the city are tandem parking which requires your neighbors to move your car from time to time.

3) When I left SF in 2004, you could rent a safe single-car garage in a good neighborhood for about $250-300/mo. Once you get out there, you could consider bringing your Camaro and storing it in a rented garage. I kept my '69Z in Noe Valley in a rented garage in a back alley way for years with no issues.

4) It's a great town for Sunday drives in your Camaro with great weather and cool places to go, but don't rely in it as your sole means of transportation. You will want to go places that you don't want to park your Camaro.

5) Another option is to store the Camaro outside of the city. When had my race car and tow rig/trailer, I had shop space out in Fairfield, CA while living in San Francisco. Storage space is significantly less expensive out that way but you're still close to things like Sears Point/Wine Country, etc.

[BC69]

I live right in SF, on Polk Street in Russian Hill.

But you are right and brought up a few points I have been figuring out. If I lease or buy something used, its getting street parked. I think its like $75 a year for zone stickers. If I ship the Camaro I will store it. Spots are still about $200 - $300 range. I wont do tandem, and need to make sure its big enough for the camaro. I would want to store it in the city so I have access...storing outside the city would be tough getting to and from it and probably defeat part of the purpose of having it haha.

I work down in the financial district, so its a 15 minute bus, or a 25 minute walk over Nob Hill (imagine the worst hill walk you have ever done and double it! - thats my walk home). So the car is not at all for normal transportation.

Greg - good point on the ignition switch. Its all new, but maybe its just bad.

Thanks

[Neil B]

Originally Posted by BC69

I live right in SF, on Polk Street in Russian Hill.

But you are right and brought up a few points I have been figuring out. If I lease or buy something used, its getting street parked. I think its like $75 a year for zone stickers. If I ship the Camaro I will store it. Spots are still about $200 - $300 range. I wont do tandem, and need to make sure its big enough for the camaro. I would want to store it in the city so I have access...storing outside the city would be tough getting to and from it and probably defeat part of the purpose of having it haha.

I work down in the financial district, so its a 15 minute bus, or a 25 minute walk over Nob Hill (imagine the worst hill walk you have ever done and double it! - thats my walk home). So the car is not at all for normal transportation.

Greg - good point on the ignition switch. Its all new, but maybe its just bad.

Thanks

If it were me, I'd buy a used Cooper Mini and use that for errands and going out on the town. Bring the Camaro and store it in the city, but be very choosey on the storage - don't be afraid to walk/drive/bus ride for the right spot. Russian Hill/Polk St. is a great neighborhood, but I'd rather have my car parked in the Marina or Pac Heights. Remember, if you buy a daily driver and leave it on the street, you'll need to move it every week for street cleaning.

[BC69]

you'll need to move it every week for street cleaning

I had my Jeep in NYC, in the East Village for two months...had to move it 3x a week at least for street cleaning. Once a week is nothing! And if you park in the right area I think it can stay longer, but is supposed to be moved more.