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  #11  
Old 08-08-2014, 08:40 AM
hughmullersa hughmullersa is offline
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so guys here you go a few pictures of the the components that are going to be used
and then a little overlay image as most people say a post like this is useless without pictures
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  #12  
Old 08-08-2014, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmo mentis View Post
Art's son is on here...you could send him a pm.

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Rodger Lee aka 'Ironworks' is on here too.
WOW a project like that will be quite an undertaking for someone. There is not chance that someone is going to be able to have a production unit for that engine/drivetrain combo. Some one will have to develop the car to work under those guidelines and quite a few more. Just moving the suspension the camaro wheel base is the easy part actually getting everything to sit in the car where you can sit in the car comfortably will be a whole other dynamic. And then trying to make the car sit good will be a whole other challenge.

Lots of people want to do these off the wall combos just to say they did with no consideration of the overall end result of the car. I think if your going to do it you might as well make the end result well thought out and appealing to the eye. I see guys put C6 vette suspension all the way around with stock cradles at full width under first gen Camaros but they sit like a 4x4 truck with a leveling kit and look stupid.

More then likely you will have to narrow the trackwidth of the car, lengthen the wheelbase a bit, and the some how get the engine and drive train to fit behind the front seats with the drive shafts going forward in the passenger compartment without affecting the already short interior space of a 1 gen camaro. And then make it look good at the same time.

If you're interested in having us do some work for you we can, but just be warned a project like this is very very expensive because of the huge about of labor effort involved to get the whole system together. Every aspect of the build needs to be considered from Day 1 of the project.

Plus the hard part about building the entire project in Solidworks is that after that very labor intensive Design work, the scope of your project is to only build one prototype so you better hope what looked like it will work on paper will actually fit a driver comfortably in the car and that it will look good when you stand back and hope the stance looks good from down the street. Designing the car is Solidworks just speeds up the process you still have to test the design with a prototype to then be able to go aback and modify the design. That is where the R&D phase of the design process comes in. And that is why it costs the OEM's tens or Hundreds of millions to design a new car to build alot of them. In a project like this your building only one car.
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  #13  
Old 08-08-2014, 08:50 AM
hughmullersa hughmullersa is offline
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So to give everyone a little more information
doing research and sitting with Audi South Africa you is prepared to assist me in a large amount of the Audi Components
We have been able to establish some really good metrics

Firstly the 69 Camaro and the S6 have the same track width and wheel-base so that is a real real big Score.
I have lucky with the Audi drivetrain been able to to get both the front and the rear suspension cradles for the Suspension location in relation to the motor transmission etc.
We have confirmed with Audi I have the complete engine and drivetrain management system with the diagnostics ecu and On Screen Display.
Also have the ebrake, ABS, Launch control and Variable Speed Air Suspension.
have the complete steering setup to.

Basically what happened was this Audi S6 was being hauled up from Cape town to Johannesburg and in transit the top deck of the hauler collapsed on the car so I basically bought the entire bottoms section from the salvage yard for $4700.00
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  #14  
Old 08-08-2014, 09:04 AM
hughmullersa hughmullersa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ironworks View Post
WOW a project like that will be quite an undertaking for someone. There is not chance that someone is going to be able to have a production unit for that engine/drivetrain combo. Some one will have to develop the car to work under those guidelines and quite a few more. Just moving the suspension the camaro wheel base is the easy part actually getting everything to sit in the car where you can sit in the car comfortably will be a whole other dynamic. And then trying to make the car sit good will be a whole other challenge.

Lots of people want to do these off the wall combos just to say they did with no consideration of the overall end result of the car. I think if your going to do it you might as well make the end result well thought out and appealing to the eye. I see guys put C6 vette suspension all the way around with stock cradles at full width under first gen Camaros but they sit like a 4x4 truck with a leveling kit and look stupid.

More then likely you will have to narrow the trackwidth of the car, lengthen the wheelbase a bit, and the some how get the engine and drive train to fit behind the front seats with the drive shafts going forward in the passenger compartment without affecting the already short interior space of a 1 gen camaro. And then make it look good at the same time.

If you're interested in having us do some work for you we can, but just be warned a project like this is very very expensive because of the huge about of labor effort involved to get the whole system together. Every aspect of the build needs to be considered from Day 1 of the project.

Plus the hard part about building the entire project in Solidworks is that after that very labor intensive Design work, the scope of your project is to only build one prototype so you better hope what looked like it will work on paper will actually fit a driver comfortably in the car and that it will look good when you stand back and hope the stance looks good from down the street. Designing the car is Solidworks just speeds up the process you still have to test the design with a prototype to then be able to go aback and modify the design. That is where the R&D phase of the design process comes in. And that is why it costs the OEM's tens or Hundreds of millions to design a new car to build alot of them. In a project like this your building only one car.
You have very very valid point and this project has been though about for a very long time
with the ride heights, wheelbases, track width etc been taking into consideration at every single point off the decision.

All your point are very valid the biggest challenge and also why I opted to share the build is to draw on the forums insight and points
And as things progress share thoughts and opinion so I dont end up looking with racing blinker but think of the various option out there

so this what what the approach was going to be from my side

Light the complete Audi drivetrain onto my Flat Chassis Table then jig up all the location and the actual ride height, mounting point and all other relevant data.
Invite a very good friend of my over from a engineering works and let him bring over OptimScan 3D scanner or I take the Setup there to render down

from there start looking and all the structual integrity and replicating what needs to be across.
want to run this vehicle on a full frame front to back

pity i am based in South Africa otherwise it could have been a fun joint project with a few specialist in USA.

As Ironwork mentioned is going to cost I am well aware but I have to be even more cautious since the feeble Rand is competing against the dollar at a rate of almost ZAR11=$1.
Also a reason why I was asking if anyone has a full frame in CAD or Solidworks to start off with
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  #15  
Old 08-08-2014, 09:40 AM
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OBeer-WAN-Kenobi OBeer-WAN-Kenobi is offline
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I can definitely see why you'd go the CAD route with something like this. The all wheel drive adds a layer of complexity and fitting stuff around all those components will be a PITA.

I'd love CAD models for this stuff too....having Solidworks myself. Of course, I can see why people would keep their models to themselves after taking the time to create them.
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  #16  
Old 08-08-2014, 09:50 AM
hughmullersa hughmullersa is offline
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OBeer
Couldn't agree more, the whole vision for this project is to keep the classic 1st Gen Camaro classic look but bring the rest of the are up into the modern ages with the German engineering after all they are the master in that field why not let a classic piece of Americana benefit.

This will least move it into the realm of Super Muscle cars and will be able to handle and not loose all the power with a 40/60 power split.
seeing as the motor that is going into this Camaro is the same motor that is running in the lambo gallardo
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  #17  
Old 08-08-2014, 01:14 PM
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Only way to get this to work correctly the first time and the cheapest is to get the car scanned and get all the Audi CAD data you possibly can, or you will have to scan all the Audi suspension components which is a very big job to do with a white light scanner.
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  #18  
Old 08-09-2014, 12:38 AM
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Chassis works has fero arm. Which is basically a scan. Doubt they'll give up their data tho. Otherwise pay for a scan. You might have to do it the old fashioned way with plumb bobs and rulers based of a full frame chassis such as shwarts or roadster shop. It won't be cheap and it won't be easy but being new never is.
(Side note I'm a OEM design engineer who's worked for electric car company's so I've seen power train integration)
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  #19  
Old 08-09-2014, 07:16 AM
hughmullersa hughmullersa is offline
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Yeah I am aware
I assumed when I put out the initial request that it may have been a little futile
I know a lot of builders do this for business purposes , I just thought that someone was willing to share info for a one off build that is way out of the box and not the norm

Least I have the shell will put her onto the rotisserie flip her sideways and take measurements and then with all this info and info from Audi I will build my own custom frame

They say if you want something done do it yourself will just take a little longer

What this space as the build progresses
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  #20  
Old 08-09-2014, 09:34 AM
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I will be watching, for sure.
I had no idea that the engine in those cars was so far in front of the axle centerline. Am I looking at that correctly? Probably not...
It doesn't appear to me that the cooling units will be able to sit in a normal location for a camaro, because the engine will be so far forward, but that is obviously the least of your problems at this time. I can't wait to see your progress in this build.
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