Shop situation??? Advice please.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Well said Rodger.

Tell him to get his stuff together and if you want send him some money.

With no money I bet you got put on the back burner. Sucks to say but it happens. The shop has to make money one way or another and that usually means taking in more work to offset the loss elsewhere.

[Rick D]

E

Originally Posted by ironworks

I think with every situation there are 3 sides to every story. Your side, his side and reality. In a business transaction like this your trying to communicate what you want done for a ballpark price and at a rate equal to your budget. Everyone has a different way to perform a job. Each way can be right but just go about doing it differently. But one way might take more time then another.

It does not sound like your mad about the quality, your just mad that they are going faster then the budgeted amount you want to spend monthly. I will tell you monthly budget cars can be tough. The projects are start and stop and no one likes that kind of a work pace. Its not good for shop a shop owner as the car might sit more per month then it is being worked on in his shop and that is bad for business. That is lost revenue for the shop owner. In those instances I try to work on he car in longer phases. I have one customer that we do his 2 month budget money every two months. You get more work done and its not a start and stop situation. But I would never do that deal for anybody but that customer as he knows and respects how big much trouble it is for me.

Plus it seems that if he did not work on the car for the first few months your were not saving your money during that period. Well that's not really fair on your part. If you don't have the money up front to pay the bill whats the hurry to get it done?

Example - if you have 6 weeks of work to get done and you want to only spend 1 weeks of labor money per month to get it done. 1. Why bring it when you dont have a good chunk of the money up front? 2. Whats the big hurry to get started on the work if you can't pay for it when the shop owner completes the work?

Seems to me the shop owner should have told you to save you money for 4 months and bring the car back in 4 months and you could just pay him every Friday to take his time and when the project is done you pay the bill when the work is done. If the time frame was similar to the example above.

As has been said her many times, there is no amount of planning you can do to know exactly what a car is going to cost you before you start construction. The government spends millions to design Air craft carrier and bridges all the time that go WAY WAY WAY over budget. And that is really something that has very few OPTIONS and new latest greatest parts. I mean how much new fancy crap can you get for a bridge?

Heck can anyone even go to the buffet and put the right amount of food they want to eat on their plate the first time? I always get to much and can't finish my 2nd plate but I sure thought I could when I was filling up my plate.

If you have no quality concern issues, you need to say to the guy this is all I can spend each month, and I need to understand why things are costing my more money then I thought. I encourage customers to ask any and all questions. Building these cars to the levels we are is not science. What fits one car may not fit on another and just because you bought the best parts available on the market does not mean its going to fit and work with your car build and hammered on for 40 years like it did some one else's car.

Originally Posted by Vince@MSperfab

Well said Rodger.

Tell him to get his stuff together and if you want send him some money.

With no money I bet you got put on the back burner. Sucks to say but it happens. The shop has to make money one way or another and that usually means taking in more work to offset the loss elsewhere.

Rogder and Vince,

Either I'm reading this wrong or your guys are Tim will have to comment but from what I am reading is he was told "up front" what it would cost or at least that the shop could perform the work for his said budget?

But now it seems with nothing in writing the shop is looking to get more for the job or it couldn't do the job for the agreed budget??

Rodger, Tim has built the car himself this was not a full build just somrthings he needed finished up.

I understand where you both (Rodger and Vince) are coming from as you both own shops, unfortunately you are both in the minority when doing things the right way. Sooooo many crooks out there today or guys that do great work but do NOT have a clue how to charge for it. I also get that soooo many customers do NOT understand what it takes to do these builds/projects! I see it all the time when I tell someone how much it will cost just for paint and materials!

I'm not saying this guys is a crook but there is definitely a miscommunication somewhere between Tim and the owner of the shop.

[ironworks]

Originally Posted by Rick D

E



Rogder and Vince,

Either I'm reading this wrong or your guys are Tim will have to comment but from what I am reading is he was told "up front" what it would cost or at least that the shop could perform the work for his said budget?

But now it seems with nothing in writing the shop is looking to get more for the job or it couldn't do the job for the agreed budget??

Rodger, Tim has built the car himself this was not a full build just somrthings he needed finished up.

I understand where you both (Rodger and Vince) are coming from as you both own shops, unfortunately you are both in the minority when doing things the right way. Sooooo many crooks out there today or guys that do great work but do NOT have a clue how to charge for it. I also get that soooo many customers do NOT understand what it takes to do these builds/projects! I see it all the time when I tell someone how much it will cost just for paint and materials!

I'm not saying this guys is a crook but there is definitely a miscommunication somewhere between Tim and the owner of the shop.

I agree 100%. I have been doing this 14 years and it seems like a long time and I'm only trying to share from the experiences I have gathered and what I understand from where I'm standing.

I don't think anybody in this story sounds like a crook or cheap skate in the situation. At all.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Originally Posted by Rick D

E



Rogder and Vince,

Either I'm reading this wrong or your guys are Tim will have to comment but from what I am reading is he was told "up front" what it would cost or at least that the shop could perform the work for his said budget?

But now it seems with nothing in writing the shop is looking to get more for the job or it couldn't do the job for the agreed budget??

Rodger, Tim has built the car himself this was not a full build just somrthings he needed finished up.

I understand where you both (Rodger and Vince) are coming from as you both own shops, unfortunately you are both in the minority when doing things the right way. Sooooo many crooks out there today or guys that do great work but do NOT have a clue how to charge for it. I also get that soooo many customers do NOT understand what it takes to do these builds/projects! I see it all the time when I tell someone how much it will cost just for paint and materials!

I'm not saying this guys is a crook but there is definitely a miscommunication somewhere between Tim and the owner of the shop.

I don't see any crookerage going on. What I suspect is a mis communication between two guys at the shop. Very similar to what my previous partner would do.

I always get an agreement of some sort and at least some money to get to a certain point if the customer is on a tight budget or pay as you go type situation. But even then a shop could get behind if other work has to come in during the stoppage. A situation I suspect is going on in this case.

If I were Tim,

I would talk to the original person we had made the initial agreement with. Try to get the budget and time frame of invoices set and in writing of some sort. If his story changes or he doesn't agree to the original agreement that I understood then I would make arrangements to pay what is owed and find another shop. Till you get to this point its useless to contact an attorney or take action.

[Grnova]

Originally Posted by ironworks

I think with every situation there are 3 sides to every story. Your side, his side and reality. In a business transaction like this your trying to communicate what you want done for a ballpark price and at a rate equal to your budget. Everyone has a different way to perform a job. Each way can be right but just go about doing it differently. But one way might take more time then another.

It does not sound like your mad about the quality, your just mad that they are going faster then the budgeted amount you want to spend monthly

Roger you are correct there are always 3 sides to a story and thank you for adding to this post. If you agree to a set "price/ budget" for the work that you have discussed, it should be completed or don't agree to the price. Second I did have all of the budgeted money but was not willing to pay anything until I recieved an invoice progress photos and a written agreement from the shop, Which I was promised but never received.and if any money was needed to purchase parts I would comply only if the price was given first.
And yes the quality of work I am happy with but not the fact that I was being charged an hourly rate, which we never talked about. So I have the agreed amount of money for work that was suppose to be completed. But when the agreement was changed without my knowledge the work is not complete and I am way over my budget. I am told to talk to the new shop manager who knows little about my build, because the owner cannot account for the cost of the hours of labor.What do I do?

[Grnova]

Originally Posted by Grnova

Correct I never paid any Money because our agreement was to pay monthly with the invoices they were suppose to supply. No money was put down. I did not sign an electronic repair order either. No agreeiment was put into an email or text. That is what I was asking for after we meet and nothing was forthcoming.

Vince sorry my my post was confusing It even confused me when i reread it. I had the money up front, just wanted invoices monthly so I could monitor the spending.

[Grnova]

Originally Posted by Rick D

E



Rogder and Vince,

Either I'm reading this wrong or your guys are Tim will have to comment but from what I am reading is he was told "up front" what it would cost or at least that the shop could perform the work for his said budget?

But now it seems with nothing in writing the shop is looking to get more for the job or it couldn't do the job for the agreed budget??

Rodger, Tim has built the car himself this was not a full build just somrthings he needed finished up.

I understand where you both (Rodger and Vince) are coming from as you both own shops, unfortunately you are both in the minority when doing things the right way. Sooooo many crooks out there today or guys that do great work but do NOT have a clue how to charge for it. I also get that soooo many customers do NOT understand what it takes to do these builds/projects! I see it all the time when I tell someone how much it will cost just for paint and materials!

I'm not saying this guys is a crook but there is definitely a miscommunication somewhere between Tim and the owner of the shop.

Rick you are correct I guess I am trying to be really vague on a subject that needs detail to understand. Invoices, work complete, and work to be done.
When I asked why it took so long 40 hours, to install 25 ft of stainless steel brake line which was indicated on the invoice I was a little taken back. I do not want something for nothing. I just want a man to stand behind his word!

[DOOM]

Originally Posted by Rick D

Tim,
First send them a certified letter to cease and desist TODAY any work going forward!!

This will stop any more being performed on your car, or at least then they can't invoice you for more work after that date.

Next after they recieve the letter call or email the "owner" and ask for a formal meeting to discuss the issue. Not sure what the state laws are where it's at but I would get VERY good at their laws.

Now write up exactly what was talked about during you talks about what was to be done and costs. Most likely it's a misunderstanding and you justp need to talk it out face to face.

Also try to keep it very professional when talking to him; he has your car so the last thing you want todo is make it personal on his side! I knows it's personal on your side but it's not on his, it's just business to him.

Lastly if he's just out to make a buck then most likely (as stated above) you will have to pay for what was finished on your car to get it back. Sucks I know but it's a he said she said at this point unless you have anything in writing, email, or text to prove your side.

Also when going to talk with him bring a third party with, a friend, expert in the field??? So you have someone to help inspect the work performed and someone to be a witness!

One last thing is don't tell him your going to sue him or take him to court as this will only make it personal and most likely you will have to pay for the lawer and possibly his lawer when he counter sues you as he most likely will. I know I would!!

One more last thing; if the shop is in IL this is a good thing as our court system is almost always on the side of the car owner as they you look at you as the little guy and the shop as the big bad business!!

Rick Is correct here . In Illinois YOU HAVE TO HAVE A SIGNED WORK ORDER TO WORK ON ANY VEHICLE.!!!! Without it he's done. Ask me how I know!

[Rick D]

Originally Posted by DOOM

Rick Is correct here . In Illinois YOU HAVE TO HAVE A SIGNED WORK ORDER TO WORK ON ANY VEHICLE.!!!! Without it he's done. Ask me how I know!

Your not the only one buddy!!

[Vegas69]

I agree with Rick, be nice for as long as humanly possible. Remind him again of your original conversation and the confusion that is his responsibility. See if you can negotiate a reasonable number to move on with your life. Let him know that you are disappointed and wish to leave on good terms.

He doesn't have any signed paperwork, you don't have your car in possession.

A consultation with a reputable attorney would be advisable before you engage him. I'd try to handle it yourself after you have been educated. Once it gets nasty, you are going for a wild ride that will cost you more money and the most precious resource you have, time.